Topic: Please Read and Help

[daveyboi]

They need constant care and there is no way they could do any kind of work.  Yet these are the people that will suffer from having their "pocket money" ie their DLA taken from them.  

It is only the  mobility allowance of the DLA that is being considered for removal

If they can drive they could most likely do some form of work. If someone else is driving them then a contribution to the necessary conversion of the driver's vehicle I do agree with but not supplying them a free car which they use for their own use as well.

I know that someone will most likely come back and say they could get different people to drive them about but I would guess that would not be the norm and maybe the care home could have a car or two for use.

The trouble is the system gets abused hence the removal.

[jennym]

I do feel confused about how this type of benefit is allocated, and know from personal experience how different some awards are.
I know a lady aged 82, with no savings left through no fault of her own. Does not own a house. Worked all her life. Paid full national insurance contributions. Widowed young. Never claimed any social security benefit. Now, due to a severe stroke, she is in a care home, expenses paid by a combination of the majority of her pension and a contribution from social services to make up the shortfall. She is left with £8 per week to cover toiletries, clothes, newspapers, sweets and outings. Obviously this sum doesn't cover these things, and her family, who are on a low income themselves, help by buying what they can for her. Her opinion is that she appreciates the care given to her, and thinks it's marvellous that she doesn't have to pay for her food and lodging, but wishes she had a little more cash to spend.
There are other poor souls in the same care home that don't appear to have relatives, and they have to do without.
Let's count our blessings and try to be honest with ourselves about what we'd do in the same situation, and at the same time try to limit the effect of those who do exploit the system.  I think we should judge only by what we truly know about folk's circumstances, not by what we read in the press.

[gp.girl]

Jos spends most weekends at home with his family and relies on the car most days. They use it for trips to the theatre cinema, shopping, visiting the Wildlife Trust nearby and for visits to friends and relatives. Having the car also means Jos can pursue his hobby of carriage driving as well as enjoying more everyday activities, such as taking garden waste to the tip! Losing DLA mobility component will mean losing his car, no longer being able to take part in any of these activities, and losing his independence.



I just question the family use of the car!
From the way this reads it says to me that Jos is the taxi service for the family.

It automatically got my back up in the anti mode!

Maybe it is just badly written and not the true picture they were trying to get across.

Whilst trying not to appear mercenary for the long term disabled I do wonder if there should be some form of productive work they could partake in and therefore be able to pay for these things even if it is only a partial contribution.
Maybe the answer should be that just the cost of adapting a vehicle could be paid for by the state.

As to the other things in this topic such as bus passes and the winter fuel allowance I think rather than the expensive means testing they just should not be paid to anyone who is still in employment is the simple answer.

That's a dangerous move. 2 groups work after retirement, the happy at work, my nan worked part-time into her 80's and those that need to pay the bills.....

You do wonder about people though, taking waste to the tip is an everyday activity??? Not here, don't buy or waste enough, that's a behaviour of the rich and/or the wasteful.

Bad news it's normal for the family to have use of the car the government paid for, free parking, fuel and mileage is too much temptation for most people. And yes I've met at least one in my travels. Although using it for Taxi work and insurance fraud is taking selfishness to a new level.....

[Paulines7]

It is only the  mobility allowance of the DLA that is being considered for removal

If they can drive they could most likely do some form of work. If someone else is driving them then a contribution to the necessary conversion of the driver's vehicle I do agree with but not supplying them a free car which they use for their own use as well.

I know that someone will most likely come back and say they could get different people to drive them about but I would guess that would not be the norm and maybe the care home could have a car or two for use.

The trouble is the system gets abused hence the removal.

I can assure you that none of the people I came across in Mencap homes would have been able to drive.  They had to pay for transport to their day centres, to visit family members or for any trips out.  They either paid the local authority for trips in a minibus, paid money to staff for taking them in their private cars or had to get a taxi.   Do you think that care homes which are run by charities or Local Authorities could afford cars for clients use?  

We had one lady with severe autism whose mother was in her 80's and lived miles away so having family call is not always an option.  Besides which, many of the people I supported liked to go home for the occasional weekend or at Christmas.  They also like to go on holiday too and could not do these things if their Mobility Allowance is taken away.

I can hear some of you now saying "Well I can't afford a holiday so why should these people be paid for out of my taxes?"  All I can say to that is that you should get out and go and meet some of these severely disabled people for if you did, you couldn't possibly continue to think the way that you do and would oppose the Government's proposal......unless of course, you really are that selfish and have no compassion.

gp girl, I have just seen your post.  Whether or not Jos should be entitled to his Mobility Allowance is not for you or I to decide.  We do not have all the facts and it may be fictitious anyway. 

What I am saying is that there are some seriously disabled people out there in homes whose life will be turned upside down by the taking away of their MA.  Try explaining that to many of the people with severe learning disabilities whose mental age could be 3 or 4.  Do you honestly think it can be right to disrupt the lives of these people?   

[daveyboi]

................
What I am saying is that there are some seriously disabled people out there in homes whose life will be turned upside down by the taking away of their MA.  Try explaining that to many of the people with severe learning disabilities whose mental age could be 3 or 4.  Do you honestly think it can be right to disrupt the lives of these people?   

I think we are all getting carried away with this.

Firstly DLA is only for people from 3 ?? to 65 years old.

At present the proposal is People who are in residential placements and receive the Mobility Component of Disability Living Allowance (DLA) will no longer be eligible for this.
It is not yet clear whether this applies to both adult and child DLA claimants.

Personal Budgets will be introduced and extended for children with special educational needs (SEN), support for children with disabilities, long-term health conditions and adult social care.

However the details of this have not yet been announced so maybe the whole issue maybe a non starter as a replacement could be in the pipeline.

I personally think that by the time all the government get all the people back into work that can work there will be much more money for those that are genuinely in need.

Having said all that UNTIL we know all the details I will happily sit on the fence on this issue

[Paulines7]

................
What I am saying is that there are some seriously disabled people out there in homes whose life will be turned upside down by the taking away of their MA.  Try explaining that to many of the people with severe learning disabilities whose mental age could be 3 or 4.  Do you honestly think it can be right to disrupt the lives of these people?   

Firstly DLA is only for people from 3 ?? to 65 years old.

The people in the Mencap homes that I looked after were adults under 65 years of age.  I don't think Mencap would be concerned if it wasn't going to affect those that they care for, but as it stands at the moment, the Government propose to take the DLA MA from these people.

I just feel ashamed that the most vulnerable people in Society are being victimised and will suffer; people that perhaps have spent all their life in a wheelchair or a home because of their disabilities.  Let us not take away their trips to the pantomimes, circuses or wildlife parks which bring smiles on their faces.       

[betula]

I feel that way too Pauline.

I know many people have it tough at the moment and I feel for anybody in a bad situation but to cut out things like this is just shameful.

Penny pinching at its worse.

[gp.girl]

Last time I checked there is no-one to defend the working person, the disabled have a multimillion pound charity and the right look so will get the vote everytime. Watch DIY sos if you want proof.

If this country gets in really deep finantual trouble jos will get to suffer with all the rest of us.

Ask someone who has to use wonga.com to get a loan at 2000+ APR why it's important.

[PurpleHeather]

SO..When I am not feeling that my life is in my controll any more.

How many of you will agree that I should be allowed to simply fade awy and die?

By law we all have to suffer and rot. (granted some fight to the end with every display of courage and dignity) but I don't want to do that. ........I want to be treated to the same respectful end the RSPCA is permitted to extend to animals.

[The Gaffer]

Just to clarify what the issue is here...

If you are a disabled person of working age and you are living in residential care then your needs will be extremely high - basically if you didn't need pretty much constant support, then you wouldn't be in residential care in the first place. Someone with an "arthritic knee" will not be in a care home.

Residential care is also very expensive, so either you will have to pay the full costs (on average something like £1000 per week) to cover the costs, or if you can't then any money that you do have (in savings, or in income) will be taken to help pay the costs. You don't have a choice over whether the money is taken or not, it is automatically taken by the Council to help meet their costs. The only income that you are allowed to keep is what is called a 'personal expenses allowance' - which is just over £20 a week, and, if you are elligible, mobility component of DLA - which is either about £20 or about £50 a week, depending on which rate you receive. Councils are specifically excluded from being able to take that money.

So let's assume that any one of us had an accident tomorrow that left us needing 24 hour care, and we ended up living in residential care. Of course we'd know our lives had changed, but we'd probably want to keep doing at least some of the things that we do now - working, gardening, trip to the pub, occasional trip to the cinema, get out to see family and friends, maybe even a holiday. But if we are able to keep working, unless you earn more than about £1000 per week, then any income you make will be taken to fund your care - you won't actually get to keep any of it. And getting to work is going to be pretty tricky if you can't even afford the electric wheelchair you now need to move about independently.

Luckily there are schemes to allow you to use your DLA mobility component to get an electric wheelchair. Luckily you can use your DLA mobility component to occasionally pay for a taxi to get to the allotment. Luckily DLA mobility component can go towards funding a properly accessible car you can use to get around. Luckily DLA mobility component means that you can contribute to the care home running a regular minibus service. Luckily you can just about afford to buy something once in a while, because your DLA mobility means that you can cover your extra travel expenses and use your personal expenses allowance to get some clothes, or a Christmas present for someone in your family.

But from October 2012, you won't have that any more - because that's what this proposal means. You will have £20 a week to cover everything. You can't afford the electric wheelchair, because it costs over £1000. Even if you have the wheelchair, if there isn't a fully accessible bus near your home you can't really get anywhere on your own any more except by accessible taxi, which means your £20 is basically gone.

I guess you just give up on doing things independently any more. You just have to hope that you have a good care home that supports you well, or a family who will buy an accessible car that you can travel in and who will come round whenever you need. You just have to accept that you are now totally reliant on other people to go anywhere. You go out of the house when someone takes you, and that's it.

Being independent is a pretty big thing -  that's why life in prison is the harshest legal penalty we can impose. I'm not saying that this is the same as prison, of course it isn't, but I just hope that people understand what this change could mean for someone's independence, simply because they need to use residential care. And I hope they'll then agree that this really isn't a reasonable, fair or progressive cut. This is something that as a civilised, caring society, we just shouldn't be cutting.

[betula]

Well said   ;D

[GRACELAND]

Just to clarify what the issue is here...

If you are a disabled person of working age and you are living in residential care then your needs will be extremely high - basically if you didn't need pretty much constant support, then you wouldn't be in residential care in the first place. Someone with an "arthritic knee" will not be in a care home.

Residential care is also very expensive, so either you will have to pay the full costs (on average something like £1000 per week) to cover the costs, or if you can't then any money that you do have (in savings, or in income) will be taken to help pay the costs. You don't have a choice over whether the money is taken or not, it is automatically taken by the Council to help meet their costs. The only income that you are allowed to keep is what is called a 'personal expenses allowance' - which is just over £20 a week, and, if you are elligible, mobility component of DLA - which is either about £20 or about £50 a week, depending on which rate you receive. Councils are specifically excluded from being able to take that money.

So let's assume that any one of us had an accident tomorrow that left us needing 24 hour care, and we ended up living in residential care. Of course we'd know our lives had changed, but we'd probably want to keep doing at least some of the things that we do now - working, gardening, trip to the pub, occasional trip to the cinema, get out to see family and friends, maybe even a holiday. But if we are able to keep working, unless you earn more than about £1000 per week, then any income you make will be taken to fund your care - you won't actually get to keep any of it. And getting to work is going to be pretty tricky if you can't even afford the electric wheelchair you now need to move about independently.

Luckily there are schemes to allow you to use your DLA mobility component to get an electric wheelchair. Luckily you can use your DLA mobility component to occasionally pay for a taxi to get to the allotment. Luckily DLA mobility component can go towards funding a properly accessible car you can use to get around. Luckily DLA mobility component means that you can contribute to the care home running a regular minibus service. Luckily you can just about afford to buy something once in a while, because your DLA mobility means that you can cover your extra travel expenses and use your personal expenses allowance to get some clothes, or a Christmas present for someone in your family.

But from October 2012, you won't have that any more - because that's what this proposal means. You will have £20 a week to cover everything. You can't afford the electric wheelchair, because it costs over £1000. Even if you have the wheelchair, if there isn't a fully accessible bus near your home you can't really get anywhere on your own any more except by accessible taxi, which means your £20 is basically gone.

I guess you just give up on doing things independently any more. You just have to hope that you have a good care home that supports you well, or a family who will buy an accessible car that you can travel in and who will come round whenever you need. You just have to accept that you are now totally reliant on other people to go anywhere. You go out of the house when someone takes you, and that's it.

Being independent is a pretty big thing -  that's why life in prison is the harshest legal penalty we can impose. I'm not saying that this is the same as prison, of course it isn't, but I just hope that people understand what this change could mean for someone's independence, simply because they need to use residential care. And I hope they'll then agree that this really isn't a reasonable, fair or progressive cut. This is something that as a civilised, caring society, we just shouldn't be cutting.

:D :D :D


WELL SAID 

Thank you

[betula]

Been listening today that Mr Cameron wants to spend two million pounds on surveying our level of happiness  ??

Strange but true........

So glad he has his priorities right. ::)

[Digeroo]

My disabled daughter lives in a residential home and is threatened with loosing this allowance.  It is used for so many things.  Getting to hospital appointments, podiatry appointments, coming home for the weekend, transport on holiday, repairs to mobility equipment.  None of it is wasted and none of it is abused.  She cannot drive and she cannot just jump on a bus.  How will she get out and about?

If you have a special car you cannot use free parking unless the disabled person is in the vehicle.

The local authority are also trying to reduce the amount of fees they pay.  They seem to expect the staff to be on the minumum wage.  Yet she is very vulnerable and the staff need to be specially trained and need to be very capable.