Topic: aminopyralid

[Tee Gee]

As many of you may know I have been badly affected with aminopyralid as a result of using contaminated manure.

Unlike some on the plots who have got rid of their affected plants I have stuck at it to see what the end result would be.

Afterall the 'experts' say that affected crops are still edible, I will be the judge of that at harvest time assuming I do get a harvest!

My thoughts if I got rid would be; I would never know the answer so at least this way I will find out!

If they turn out 'dodgy' then and only then will I get rid of them! If however they produce a harvest then that will be a bonus!

Here is what the plants look like this morning;

Potatoes;





Tomatoes;



Peppers;





Cimbing French beans;





On a better note:

Calabrese;






Onions;



and I will be lifting my garlic within the next couple of days;



The main reason I have taken these pictures is; to show people such as youselves what aminopyralid looks like on various types of plants.

I hope none of you will ever be affected with this pestilence! but at least you now know what it looks like!

Sorry the pictures are a bit big but I thought I would lose less detail at this size!

[Amazingrotavator(Derby)]

I've had exactly the same problem. I've left my spuds in and got quite a few off the charlottes this morning. I dug them all up to make space for the constant rotavating. The main crop(rooster) seems to have picked up so they are now going to be watered and fed. All brassica's have done well along with the onions. I felt really sick when I realized what had happened to all types of beans.
I did phone the farmer he told me he had supplied the whole village where he is but couldn't pin down which supplier had sprayed as he has 5 supplying hay.Bet his village doesn't have any more off him. Anyway, Rotavate, rotavate, rotavate and let's try again next year.

[Sparkly]

Awww so sorry to hear this Teegee - your plot really is an inspiration! Hope you do get some crops!

[Gillysdad]

Those pictures bring back terrible memories Tee Gee. My tomato's plants were just like that, and the tomato's were pointed at the base, not like Shirley should have been. I burned the lot in a roaring Parkray fire.
For those curious as to how the plants became infected........
A neighbours greenhouse/shed caught fire late at night. The flames were seen by folks who live near the allotments. The fire brigade duly arrived with their hoses and put the fire out.
In the shed had been a packet of "weed killer", donated to my neighbour by a mate. This got mixed with the water from the hoses, the pressure of water caused the stuff to fly all over. Landing some of it on the greenhouse roof, then running off into the water butts.  >:( ??? to be used as usual.
Needless to say nobody knew about the weedkiller until the plants started to die.

[froglets]

Hi TeeGee,  as mentioned before, feeling for you this year having been through it ourselves.  We did get a crop from our Anyas that were affected, but the yield was down and the tubers were very deformed.  Cabbages romped away, beans barely made it to 6" high & were disposed of.  Now trying to decide what to do re organic matter and the plot - we're on clay so manure was always a key element for us.

Ho hum, chin up, keep rotovating and it will all come right in the end.

k

[delboy]

So, am I ight to assume that by rotovating and constantly breaking up the soil and contaminant hay/manure the breakdown of the aminopyralid will be achieved?

Over what time period?

We have banned the use of one stable's manure as they were found to be using the d**n stuff(illegally) willy-nilly.

[Digeroo]

Do you have any courgettes affected.  Actually some of my cabbages look odd.

I am not clear whether it affects compost from affected crops.

I have broad beans affected as well.  I  am not sure how long it lasts since I have a very small amount of problem carried over from last year.  Though I have not rotavated and not done much digging either.  

Our farmer is still totally at a loss as to how it got into the manure.  He is sure he has not used the products himself and his hay meadows are certaiinly full of weeds including clover and he also produces his own straw.  The only things he buys in are animal feed stuffs for pigs and sheep.  So he does not buy in any forage.

The really odd thing is that there is a huge amount of devastation this year but only a few patches my beans being one of them last year from the same pile of manure.   I feel particularly devastated becuase every kept on saying it was potato leaf curl and ignored me and so lots of people used manure on their beans.....

I am really sorry you have been affected TeeGee.  Your allotment is such an inspiration.  

The pictures are great.  

I have had some potatoes from mine and the results are not misshapen at all though the crop is minimal.  Some of the broad beans pods are rather curled up.

Quite a lot of potatoes on our site are now unfurling.

[realfood]

Some 60 of our allotments were affected last year and those who dug their manure into the ground have had no follow up affects this year. Even those who got no potatoes last year are allright this year. There is some evidence that the type of soil, the amount of soil bacteria and the amount of rain, affect how quickly the aminopyralid breaks down.
Most people suggest one growing season is enough, but in tests done by the Canadian Regulatory Authorities, suggest that in clay loam soils, it can take up to two years for the aminopyralid to be released. I suspect that the Canadian soils may have a hot dry Summer and a long frozen Winter, which will delay soil bacteria getting to work.
If people composted their potato haulms, then it may take another year for the aminopyralid to be got rid of.
This year I dug in the last bit of contaminated manure from my stockpile and one courgette plant has been affected.

[Digeroo]

You suggest  that potato haulms may affect compost.  But what is the situation regarding brassicas etc which appear unaffected. 

[SMP1704]

I bought manure from Homebase this year, used it mixed with compost for the tomato ring culture in the polytunnel.  16 plants all affected, but I have been feeding with seaweed and comfrey and they have perked up but the yield is very low :'(

Sorry for your plot TG

[Ellen K]

< /lurk>

Hello to all fellow gardeners.

Very sorry to hear that so many people are affected by this.  There are 2 people on my allotment site who I would say are also affected but neither seem to recognise it.  As you say, it is put down to something else: a virus, poor seed, planting too early, planting late etc.

But it makes you think that this problem is massively underreported.  And there needs to be a lot more noise made about it to get it to stop.

I have taken on a plot that nobody else on the waiting list wanted because it was in such a state.  I've tried to bring it back to life with B&Q compost and poultry manure pellets but it is costing me a fortune and I am too scared to buy muck as this would probably finish me off.  So kudos to you who have this problem and keep going.  But wot a bummer eh?

[sunloving]

Hi all
Its a difficult time when this happens and we talked a lot about all of this last year so please use the search tool to find those discussions.

Year three is fine for us no signs of symtpoms any more. we did two years of grass cuttings and chicken poo and now have found a clean supply of manure.

digging over does help as as tee gee showed some crops are unaffected but still we dont know what residues they are carrying and thereofre what you would injest if you ate them.

our local stables are aware now and are trying not to use aminopyralid products but not there ae in the system and relicensed and this can only continue.

As previously posted it is vital to report the problem to the pesticides board and to dow on the manure matters website and insist that they remove the contaminated manure away.
write to your MP and give photos of affected potato and tomato plants to allotmenteers.

 good luck
x sunloving

[grannyjanny]

We have gone through about 8 tonns of manure on daughters plot all good stuff but we have run out for the last 2 8x8 beds. Brainwave as her local farmer can't deliver for a couple of weeks so I phoned a local to us organic farm & we can help ourselves, even told us where the bags were ;) to put it in. We drive past the farm on the way.
Denby visitor it might be worth asking around or perhaps yellow pages, there may be an organic farm locally. If you have to pay it would still be cheaper than B & Q compost.

[Trevor_D]

We're still getting the effects of it right across the site.

We were the first site in the country to report this to Defra, in June 2007. The rep they sent down identified the problem immediately. We only get manure from our on-site stables. They do not use any of the guilty sprays, but in 2006 they had bought in feed as their own store had been vandalised.

We were again affected in 2008 - along with half the country - so we advised our members not to use it. Last year, following Defra's advice, the stables spread the manure on their fields.

So, boys & girls, guess what's happened? Aminopyralid bonds to grass; and it was spread all over the grass; horses eat grass; it passes intact through the horse. So - you are keeping up at the back there, aren't you? - the fresh manure still has the aminopyralid in it! And this is from something introduced into the system four years ago!

And as for commercial potting composts, now they have cut down on - or even cut out altogether - the peat component, that has to be replaced by something. The manufacturers buy in compost from the plants that treat our domestic green waste. So - pay attention again - we use weed & feed stuff on our lawns; that contains a non-too-distant cousin of the dreaded weedkiller, namely clopyralid; we cut our grass and put the clippings out for the Council to collect; this is then heat-treated to kill weeds & infections and turned into compost; but neither aminipyralid nor clopyralid is destroyed by heat, so it's still present in the finished product; we use it to pot up our plants and it kills them!

[Tee Gee]

And as for commercial potting composts, now they have cut down on - or even cut out altogether - the peat component,  we use it to pot up our plants and it kills them!

Well put Trevor thats what I meant when I said; Don't get me on about potting compost! >:( >:(

Every year I buy 4 bags multipurpose and 6 bags of compost from a wholesaler (through a friend) and as a general rule it has been quite good.

Well this year the potting compost looked beautiful dark, plenty of humus in other words just how I like my composts.

But  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( what was in it?

Damned if I know but I have lost around five or six hundred bedding plants due to it.

Have you noticed I haven't shown you many pictures of my garden this year??


Thats because I have nothing to show you.

What happened is; the root ball of everything I grew in this compost was virtually non existant!

When I removed the plant from a tray/pot or cell the compost fell away from the root system leaving a very sad looking tap rot, no feeder or water roots!

The compost that fell from the root system looked like 'wet coal dust' if any of you can remember what that looked like!

I am not saying it was coal dust being used in place of sand but if it was then 'sulphur' comes to mind and the roots were reminiscent of 'burning' i.e. being in contact with an acid product!

Then to add insult to injury we had the recent dry spell

Well!!..my plants stood no chance with its poor root system they couldn't cope with the dryness of the soil and just frizzled up.

Now one can argue that I have done something different this year thus causing the problems and that would be a fair assumption! But how is it that those plants I have grown in my home made compost are thriving?

As Trevor intimated; what the hell are they putting into the compost??

I know next year it is a case of 'beggar' the peat saving brigade I'm buying peat and sand and making my own compost!

I will close now because my blood pressure is up and if you will pardon the pun I will close by saying; I am sick and tired of being 'SH*T' on by politicians/commerce and the PC brigade and I think something should be done about it ..........but what?

Sorry for the rant folks but that just how I feel about the whole issue. :-\ :-\


 

[mark_h]

All the members of the allotment association(Eastleigh and district) on e-mail had one from the secretary regarding this.    Some of the sites have had problems with Aminopyralid contaminated manure from local sources, at least in one site in Southampton has been affected too.   

  I've used manure in the past but will not be doing so anymore - the risks of getting the bad stuff is just too great.     From now on for me I'll be using mostly green manures to help enrich the soil and pro-grow(if ok to use) to help open up the heavy clay of my plot.

Mark

[Ellen K]

^^ yes I am also wondering if this green manure thing is the way to go.

I have got good results from these 10kg buckets of dried chicken poo that the GCs sell but what is it exactly?  Presumably it is the product of the battery hen industry and as a buyer of free range eggs I just don't want to support this.

But manure from organic farming is worth looking at certainly.

Like many rookies, my plot is a former landfill in an old claypit so soil inprovement is my #1 priority.   But we are being squeezed from both sides with the unknow quantity manure and the rentacrowd treehuggers telling us what we can't use - what is there left?

It is a real challenge.  I am always on the look out for anything that can go in my compost bins but it is going to take me a decade to do this.

[:(]

^^ yes I am also wondering if this green manure thing is the way to go.

I have got good results from these 10kg buckets of dried chicken poo that the GCs sell but what is it exactly?  Presumably it is the product of the battery hen industry and as a buyer of free range eggs I just don't want to support this.

But manure from organic farming is worth looking at certainly.

Chicken pellets are fertilisers. Manure is a soil conditioner. They do different jobs so theres no point in comparing them.

[grannyjanny]

Denby visitor do you have room for a few chickens. I have 4 chicks & 3 guinea pigs & i use hemcore on top of newspaper for GPs & just hemcore for chicks. It rots down very quickly into usable compost. That could be added to the compost bin. I ask neighbours for scraps too. Do you have friends or nieghbours with hens or pets that could give use the remains when cleaned out?

[Ellen K]

Chicken pellets are fertilisers. Manure is a soil conditioner. They do different jobs so theres no point in comparing them.

If you are saying that they are chalk and cheese, well I don't agree: OK they are processed and handled very differently but basically they are both poo from herbivores.  So they must have a lot in common.

Unfortunately I haven't got any hens or other vegetarian pets or any access to their bedding from anyone else.  But I am getting a good harvest from the plot with the B&Q stuff so it is not all bad.  It is just that the plot is very hard to dig, full of perennial stuff coming back up and it is just about impossible to sow any seeds.  Ah, the joys of the allotment eh :-)