Topic: Are allotment plots too cheap ?

[trogg]

A common theme I've noticed on these forums are tenants not looking after their plots, and problems getting rid of them.

As someone who has been trying ( not hard enough ) to get a plot for nearly 2 years I've come to the conclusion that the rents are too cheap.

A full size plot as little as £11 a year !  I think  if the price was increased it would put off those who can't be bothered and also put a few extra quid into the allotments.

I guess it's the council who sets the price though  :-\

I would be happy paying a bit more than 3p a day.

or am I missing something ?

[ceres]

Yes, let's make allotments the preserve of the affluent.

[betula]

No they should stay at the rents they are.

Why should the rest of us pay more just because some people do not tend their  plots.

If the rules were tightened up we would not have the problem.

[bazzysbarn]

Wish mine was as cheap as £11 a year! The idea of having a plot for us is so we can afford fresh veg. If the rent was any dearer we would be struggling as we are not as well off as some people.

[Eristic]

Yes. Just this once I agree with the sharp fork. If you think it is hard to kick out an old boy who's a bit techno challenged, just try to evict a staunch rich bitch well connected and vociferous.

While £11 is cheap it is far from the norm with something in the region of £30 for a half plot more common. £30 is also round about the business rental value for small parcels of agricultural land so it is not even a subsidy as such.

Even if a plotholder volunteers a surrender of the tenancy it can take a long time before the waiters are contacted, given time to view, agreements signed and work commences. Unless the plot was in tip top condition it with then on average take a year or more for the new tenant to bring it under full control.

Another point to bear in mind is that when looking in over the fence, all you will see is a wilderness and that would include a plot full of spuds with a few thistles poking up. It all looks a mess.

If you are on the waiting list then you have to wait. We cannot push any secret buttons and no amount of moaning will do any good.

[trogg]

I wasn't suggesting a massive increase, just enough to make it not worthwhile holding on to a plot you're not too bothered with.

It was just a thought from someone a little frustrated in seeing unused/part used plots.

I wont put it to a vote  ;D

[betula]

I understand trogg. ;D

[Sinbad7]

Yep, I think in some area's allotments are far too cheap.

I have been involved in allotments for many years and it has never failed to amaze me how so many of the old timers want everything for nothing.  Plus, some new ones too want to know who mows their paths, where is the hose to water, where's the free manure etc, all this for less than a £1 a week !

[trogg]

Just like to say that although I'm 'looking over the fence' I have been on the other side...

I (family)quite often visit my in-laws 125 miles away, and almost always end up helping out on their allotment.

They say the same things as I see on these forums, unused plots that just get 'turned over' when the tenant gets pushed into doing something about it.

If they can't be bothered to use their plot then I think a financial disincentive would be an idea .

[trogg]

I'm glad someone agrees with me  :)

was looking on how to delete my posts,

 and do a runner  :-[

[betula]

Plus what you pay in council tax sinbad.

I pay enough to buy the land ;D ;D ;D

Allotments should be available for everyone.......if you are on benefits and allotment rent if overpriced could be unobtainable. :)

[Sinbad7]

Lol, don't do a runner trogg.

I know in some areas the council has a tiny budget to run  all their site's, so the staff get cut down to a minimum sometimes only one or two people dealing with allotments and that's not even a full time job for them.  No money to do the work that needs doing on these sites, then the tenants on the sites moaning and the cycle goes on.  Where if the sites were financially viable then things would move forward for allotments.

I personally think they should be run on the lines of a business so they charged proper rents for the plots and ploughed the monies back into the sites.  Bit like you get what you pay for.

Of course can't see many if any would agree with me  ;D

[Sinbad7]

Arhhhh but look what else you get for your council tax betula.

No way can our borough run all their sites on the budget they get from those taxes a year.

If you list all that is done with your council tax betula you get quite good value for money.  It just depends if you are a family that take advantage of what is on offer in your area and is subsidised by your council tax.

I appreciate our good street lighting, I appreciate our clean streets, I appreciate the use of the library etc etc.

[betula]

Simbad you sound like our MP.......... ;D ;D ;D

[Eristic]

Putting the price up would not change anything except the class of the people not doing any weeding. Make it law that plot rents have to be at least £200 the only people who would give up the plots would be the people with nice plots but no money. Once all the plots were in the hands of wealthy folk there would then never be any plots come vacant. Bill them a grand and they would just write a cheque. Price is not the issue here.

[saddad]

While I agree with Eristic that even putting up rents to "realistic" levels would not help. When the fad wears off the rich will lapse... we are a private site, set up by nimbys and for twenty years they paid no rent at all and let the site go to wrack and ruin. However as treasurer I object to being expected to finance miracles on a rent roll that was bringing in less than £2,000 pa from 175 plots. I have now managed to double the rents, shock! horror! to £20pa for 300sq yds. New tenants still look at the rent and expect I mean per month not per year. Don't play the poverty card... at @50p per week, less than a daily newspaper or £2.50 per month, the price of a pint I'm not ripping you off...
We have one tenant, on a pension who objects to paying £120 in one go... well no one is saying he has to have 6 plots... hand one back, or pay in monthly installments by DD... or just give up!!  ::) Rant over... having spent two days stood in the rain trying to raise extra funds to subsidise the whingers has not improved my attitude... :-X

[BAK]

Although it is difficult to generalise - given the huge differences in rents (from £1 to £100+) - I consider that, when viewed historically, typical rents are cheap.

As an example I estimate that my rent is equivalent to approximately one third of what a plot holder would have paid our council in 1896 when they first took control of the site. This is not to say that I should be paying 3 times more, as my 19th century predecessor was paying for some items that are no longer relevant, but I should be paying more than I am.

I agree with Sinbad7 that council-run allotment sites should be run along business lines. As he says, it would not be popular (turkeys not voting for Xmas etc). However, I consider that it is essential if we are to avoid further reductions in the number of sites across the country, not now when allotments are in vogue but during the next downturn in demand when little (or even large) snips in supply are politically acceptable. Demand for plots has always been cyclical and will probably always remain so.

[Trevor_D]

Well said, Saddad!!

We're a private site, too. We have about 90 plots, plus 2 large smallholdings; our total annual income is a little over £4000, nearly half of which goes straight out again as rent to our landlords, the local church charity. (And they should be getting far more than that as annual income from a large area of land on the outskirts of London!)

That leaves us about £2000 a year to do everything else: water, machinery, repairs, running costs (most of which are borne personally be the Committee, who rarely put in chits for paper, phone calls, etc), to say nothing of new ventures to improve the site, or fencing to keep out intruders.

Our fees are currently £12 for 300 sq yds! Even with up-front joining fees, I've been charging newcomers £21 for a full year's rental! That's a fortnight's paper bill for me, and I don't even have a Sunday paper!

But I agree with several others who've posted, as well. We also need stronger rules - and a stronger will-power from those in charge - to get rid of the time-wasters who never bother to come and cultivate. And let's do it sooner rather than later while we're in a position to put a little pressure on for, as BAK pointed out, demand is cyclical.

[Old bird]

Every time something comes up about the cost of allotments we always hear the same thing - the whingeing from those that "haven't got a job - or are poor pensioners - or who just hate anyone that appears to have money!"

I have said - numerous times - people do not always value something that costs nothing - and yes - in todays' world the rents are ridiculously cheap!

The out of workers can afford to pay the rent - maybe not all in one go - but on a manageable drip - plus there is absolutely no excuse for their plots ever to be untidy as every scrap of ground should be cultivated to feed them and their families very cheaply!  They generally don't pay rent and council tax like some of the people that work have to!

The pensioners - yes they do receive a pittance - but again they could pay on the drip - over time - they get - if on benefits they don't pay council tax and again they should always have immaculate plots as they have plenty of time and they should be able to feed themselves much more cheaply than if they bought their veggies!

The "rich" by which I expect you mean the working people who earn a living wage - pay tax - and everything else - run a car - have a drink every so often
(oops I was getting my cross section  muddled there as loads of out of workers and pensioners run cars and have a drink and a smoke, eat out occasionally etc.)

Very rich people - don't have allotments - they have large houses with large gardens and probably have a gardener to do their work for them.  So who are these supposed "rich" people you are talking about?

I think that rents are still on the very low side - and it would not only be "the rich" that would afford an alloment - even if the annual price were doubled!



Old Bird

 :o

[saddad]

they should always have immaculate plots as they have plenty of time

from old bird above...
Every year at the AGM someone suggests discounts for pensioners... I suggest they pay more as they have extra time to spend on the lottie... our "best" kept plots are immaculate and they are worked by pensioners...  :-X