Topic: Are allotment plots too cheap ?

[Borlotti]

I got an allotment on when I retired and spend a few hours every day up there.  Love it, and the people who I chat to.  I think it is great value for money, pay less for a year (under £40) than it costs to have my hair done, cut and coloured once a month (£44, and that is only local).  When I got divorced, no maintenance and two children to support, I took a job with a pension and paid in extra, so now have private and government pension, mortgage is paid off, no children to support, only one cat and grandchildren to give pocket to if I wish.  My lovely free bus/tube/train pass is much appreciated.  No car as gave it up when retired and got a bike.  Ideally I would have a small house with a large garden, greenhouse, shed, veggie plot, but cannot take on another mortgage at my age so the next best thing is my allotment.  Now there is such a big demand I wouldn't be surprised if the price goes up but would be prepared to pay extra (but obviously wouldn't like it).  Some pensioners do moan a lot, and I feel more sorry for young families with children and big mortgages.  Children never stop eating or wanting shoes/clothes etc and are expensive.  I can live cheaply, plenty of vegetables and plenty of exercise (certainly saves on heating bills).  I also think that with a big demand one allotment per person is fair (sorry if any of you have more than one), I am tempted to put the vacant plot next to mine in OH's name but he wouldn't have time or inclination to do it and it would be too much for me, just hope someone as nice as 'my old lady who gave it up' takes it on.  My Council have now stopped rotavating allotments when they are taken on as it is too expensive and they have to be taken 'as seen' as some of them are very, very overgrown.  5 years ago, when I got mine the site was very quiet, but since Joe Swift came and allotments have become the fashionable thing to do we have got many new people, but some stay and some very quickly give up.  Luckily all the new people are very pleasant and friendly. I pay my Council tax but do not think that entitles me to a cheap allotment.  I don't owe anyone anything and when they ring up to offer me loans or debt repayment I say I don't want it or need it and they say 'I am a very lucky young lady', not lucky just prepared and saved for my retirement.

[pippy]

I think the great thing about allotments is that they are so egallitarian - everyone, no matter what their age, sex, colour etc. pays the same and is measured by whether they cultivate their plot and work WITH people. 

Today, our society seems to be set up for people to look for the "poor little me" card to play - either "I'm a pensioner", "I have kids", "I am female, black, yellow, single parent", etc.  One thing I learnt from a disabled friend whom I greatly admired was that above all, she wanted people to look for what she COULD DO, not what she couldn't.  She wanted to be evaluated by that.

Personally I think up to £1 a week is or should be no hardship to anyone who is determined to make use of a plot, whoever they are.  Some pensioners may be hard up, but so are some families.   Of course, the cost should also depend upon what services and assistance is available on that site.  We pay an increased charge for water, some sites pay more for hedge/path/site maintenance.  Whatever is included you do know about it when you take the plot so it is your choice!

[beckydore]

If you have cheap plots, great but you still need to throw people off it they can't maintain them to a certain standard. I think putting up our plots  would definitely put people off, including those who keep them in good shape - £40 per year for a full plot, I think £27 for a half plot. Retired and those on benefits pay half but probably get more use.
I don't see why anyone could need more than 2 plots. What is the guy doing with 6??

[Borlotti]

It is good to talk to people on the allotment and on here about vegetables for hours on end without the person you are talking to either yawning or trying desparately to get away.  We have an interest in common and are not too materialistic (I hope), only allotment people can get over excited about half price seeds or even free seeds. Also having an allotment saves money on days out or holidays, as spending a day at the allotment is as good as a holiday.

[Old bird]

It is lovely to hear "positive replies".

I am fairly obviously a glass half full type of person!

Old Bird

[betula]

But would we all be so jolly about rent rises if commercial rates dictated the rent????

My thought is leave a good thing alone and get rid of the woolly rules that allow the non users to keep their plots.

Allotments have always been a cheap way for the public to grow veg.....I would like to keep it that way.

[Old bird]

Totally agree with you Denise!

But I am not talking commercial rates just enough to be "sensible" and for the allotments to pay for themselves and not subsidised by the general public in their Council tax bill!

Ann!

[Trevor_D]

Even double our current rent of £12 for a half plot would be dead cheap - and solve a lot of problems for the Committee trying to make ends meet.

The important thing about allotments - apart from being cheap - is that they are a community. If folk rent a plot but never bother to come and cultivate it, what the hell have they got it for? And why doesn't the rest of the community throw them out?

[betula]

The way I see council tax is it should be used for public amenities.

The allotment is an important public amenity to my mind.

I do not mind helping to fund all sorts of things that I personally do not use.

I have no problem in expecting my council tax to go towards allotments. :)

[Unwashed]

Putting up the rent doesn't really address the issue of uncultivated plots, and uncultivated plots isn't really the issue either.

There should be more allotments.  Councils should be establishing more sites so that anyone that wants can have an allotment of the size they want.

Allotments too cheap?  No.  National average is ~£4.00/pole and on a full well-run site that should be enough to pay ground rent, water, maintenance, and leave a bit for capital investment too, and tenants should be encouraged to do as much of the administration and maintenance as possible because that builds community.

[saddad]

After our next rent rise (October with a years notice!) we will be paying £2.40 per pole... my long term goal is £3.00 per pole or £30 pa.. Even I draw the line at asking for a £1 a week!!  ::)

[BarriedaleNick]

Last AGM (we are a private association) a couple of the older chaps proposed waving the rates for members with 25 yrs standing.  Apparently £20 year was too much for them!  It was pointed out that everyone else would have to pay more to cover the costs and that as more peole got to 25 years then the rates would rocket.  Natch they lost but they were serious in their intent.
Allotments are cheap but they should be - if left to the market we could charge a hell of a lot more but as we dont need the money what would be the point.

[Old bird]

Denise

I agree that it is an important public amenity - but to a minority of people -  and my point is that there are - in my town 100 or so allotments - but several thousand council tax payers.

I would not like that several thousand people coming to visit my plot - as they consider it an amenity that they contribute towards!


Unwashed - if the rents were a bit higher - some people that don't particularly bother with their allotments - may think that the higher price is not worth their paying as they aren't getting anything out of it.  As I said before - if you don't charge much for something it may not be valued by the recipient - and therefore it may be left to rot as it cost near to nothing!


Old Bird
 :D

[betula]

I found this.To quote from below,I would not want to return to the days when allotments were for people of means.

 Brief History of Allotments in England & Wales
In the early and high Middle Ages villagers shared pieces of land around the village to eke out an existence by growing crops and grazing livestock. However, rises in the population and improvements in agriculture put pressure on the “shared” approach, leading to moves to privatise this common land.

Land Enclosure, as it was called, occurred principally in the 18th and 19th centuries, benefiting a relatively small minority (landowners and farmers) while disenfranchising the majority. Fortunately, some members of the landed gentry, politicians and the clergy had social consciences, and they commenced in the 1760s what turned out to be a long struggle to provide allotments for the poor and unemployed by means of individual initiatives and lobbying for legislation.

Members of the nobility who were early providers of allotments in the late 18th century included Lords Carrington, Winchilsea and Egremont. Some providers set rules: Cranfield Church in Bedfordshire required regular attendance at church, the bringing up of the family in a decent and orderly manner, and specified forfeiture of the allotment for any criminal conviction.

The first attempts to legislate for the provision of allotments occurred in the 1790s, but they were easily rebuffed by the landowners’ lobby which was strongly against the idea.

Life became even harder for the poor in the early part of the 19th century for reasons which included: a surplus of labour with the return of soldiers after the Napoleonic Wars; automation in the form of the threshing machine; and somewhat perversely gradual improvements in health which meant more mouths to feed. These factors, coupled with bad harvests in 1829 and 1830, led to the Swing Riots of 1830 and 1831. The rioters were harshly dealt with: 19 people were executed, and over 1,000 were either jailed or transported to Australia.

Lobbying subsequently became more fruitful, in part due to concerns about social unrest after the Swing Riots, and some initial pieces of legislation were enacted. Unfortunately, the effects of many of the acts which related to allotments (right through to the end of the 19th century) were diluted for the simple reason that they tended to rely on voluntary action.

By the middle of the 19th century a modest level of progress was beginning to be achieved, helped by a gradual decrease in the opposition from landowners and farmers. The increase in the number of allotments was far from uniform across the country, Wiltshire and Lincolnshire being particular hotbeds of activity. Potato fields were also popular around this time; this was a mechanism whereby land was let by a farmer for growing the crop which had become a staple part of the poor's diet by the start of the 19th century.

By 1873 there were around 243,000 plots according to one estimate. It was from this point onwards that an explosion in the growth of the allotments occurred, continuing right through to 1945. There were a number of reasons for this growth:

The movement, which had been predominantly rural in nature up to this point, quickly became urban in the latter part of the 19th century, as increasing numbers of town-dwellers sought the means to reconnect with the soil and to supplement their wages. Town gardens (places for both decoration and cultivation) had in fact predated the allotment movement in places such as Birmingham and Nottingham but they were often for people of some means, e.g. shopkeepers and artesans, rather than the ordinary working man.
changes in local government organisation, coupled with more effective allotment legislation in the period from 1880 through to 1908, led to the public provision of allotments. One estimate puts the number of allotments at around 600,000 just prior to the First World War
and the food situation during the two World Wars led to purple patches with the number of allotments peaking at around 1.5m during both conflicts.
Unfortunately, the second half of the 20th century saw a rapid descent from these dizzying heights, as the general standard of living gradually increased. The financial requirement of individuals to grow crops diminished, leading to a pronounced waning in the levels of enthusiasm across the nation. By the end of the 20th century there were estimated to be in the region of 250,000 allotments in England. The last 35 years has seen a number of gentle surges in interest, the latest being the significant appeal among young women, particularly mothers, to grow tasty food, free of pesticides.

The enemies of the allotment movement have been, and remain, the insatiable needs of property developers and the apathy of many plot holders. There will undoubtedly be continuing pressures on allotments everywhere, requiring vigilance and goodwill in equal measures if a right that many people struggled hard to win over a period of around a century, and even harder to maintain over the last 100+ years, is to be protected.

[betula]

I do not understand why allotment sites need huge amounts of money.

Our parish council pay for our water(no hosepipes allowed) and they cut the hedge that goes along the road side of our allotment twice a year.

I requested help with clearing of rubbish off the site,the allotment had been more or less abandoned for a few years.They arranged for some lads who are on probation to come and help and I think that cost them something.

That is it.

No freebies of anything.We have to pay for whatever we need on our plots.

Maybe committees sit and dream up all sorts of things that they want to spend money on.

We function well at this level and I know we cost the rate payer very little.

 :)

[Trevor_D]

For independent sites like ourselves, you've answered your own question, Betula.

The council pays for your water. We pay for ours.

They cut the hedge. We do ours - and what's more it's written into our lease that we have to or risk getting thrown off.

The council arranged from some lads to help with clearance. They won't for us.

We're not a council site. We can't call on anyone - that's why a bit more in our coffers would be handy. Not huge amounts, though we do have a quarter of a mile of fencing to maintain!

[Sinbad7]

I agree 100% with Old Bird's first post, well said.

[BarriedaleNick]

Trevor_D..

Do you have site days?  We are self financing and tight as a gnats chuff - we source lots of stuff through freecycle and have two days a year ,of which all memebers are duty bound to attand one.  We get the paths trimmed - steps redone - bits of painting etc all with the help of members.  Of course it is the usual crew who always turn up and do the graft but it sort of works and keeps costs down.
Just wondering if this is common practice or not..
cheers..

[Digeroo]

Many thanks for the potted history of the allotment movement.  We are on a private site.  I think the owners are doing it as a jesture to the community they certainly are not going to get rich on the proceeds even though we pay considerably more than people pay for council ones.  There just are no council ones in our area.   Six people or no six people. I think that people should be able to get a government/EU grant for providing allotments.  Perhaps then there would be more.

[BAK]

Unwashed,

as I closely follow info on allotment rents, I am interested to know the source of your "national average of ~£4 per pole".