Topic: Upside down Wigwam for Runner Beans.

[Emagggie]

I'm always on the lookout for a different and space saving way to grow my runners. I've just read a mention about an upside down wigwam, good news for small plots, I think.
Has anyone seen this in action or better still, tried it? It's supposedly good if your plot is windy as it should stay upright in a gale :o :o
I'm thinking it would need some kind of round frame to half way up to secure the canes. I'm not looking to spend money on a comercial thing so I'm going for a think and a coffee and would appreciate any suggestions please. ;D

[chriscross1966]

Can be a bit of a sod to put up but one way to sort that out is to stick a fence post in the middle, then tie each cane to it ..

[Emagggie]

Thanks Chris, but wouldn't I need to space the canes out at the bottom to give the plants room to grow?

[Eristic]

An upside down wigwam!  ::)

That has to be the most stupid thing I've heard this month. What is wrong with the traditional wigwam with pointed side up and all the forces of nature working to assist the gardener?

[Emagggie]

Well thanks for that Eristic! You certainly don't mince your words, do you?
I am very short of ground space. I grew beans against a hurdle last year and found it much easier to pick them as they hung outwards slightly but the hurdle broke eventually and the wind didn't help matters. This is what prompted my question.
http://the-gardener.blog.co.uk/2007/05/28/runner_bean_support~2350636/

[shirlton]

Tony once grew them with the canes crossing lower so that there was more cane hanging over and outwards but it takes a lot more room and the harvest wasn't any better

[Duke Ellington]

Its interesting E Maggie but I would really love to see a photo or drawing of one. I cant picture it in my mind  :-[

Duke

[lancelotment]

Interesting concept.  Basic physics suggest that the centre of gravity of each bean will fall outside the base meaning that all beans should be forward of the canes and therefore easy to pick rather then disappearing into the middle of a pyramid behind the canes.  Wasn't Isaac Newton clever when he invented gravity.  Bet he didn't have beans in mind at the time though!  Lance

[Emagggie]

I am imagining it to be a smallish circle of canes,( as big as I can make it in the space allowed) getting wider to the top. Like the shape of a traditional vase I suppose. I can't find a pic at all I'm afraid Duke.

Also less disturbed by the wind Lance. (Maybe I.N. ate the beans and was disturbed by wind himself ;D)

[raisedbedted]

Interesting idea and I'd be interested in a picture if you do it - have seen similar ideas such as a 'bean wheel'.

This year we are adopting a similar idea, we have a frame of posts 25' long and against this have secured canes in one row, the hope is that the beans will hang down and so will be easier to pick from the other side.

[Emagggie]

I think your frame will be more substantial than mine was rbt. It was easier picking I'll agree.

http://www.solihull.gov.uk/Attachments/Newsletter05i2.pdf
I have just found this pic. (go to page 2 'runner bean supports') I will take Him to the tip this afternoon in search of a large bike wheel. ;D

[saddad]

and you do get all the beans on the outside....  ;D

[chriscross1966]

Thanks Chris, but wouldn't I need to space the canes out at the bottom to give the plants room to grow?

Put them all in quite tight then put the plants around the outside rather than in between. most beans will hit a pole before they try to flop over, if you think they're not going to then tie a piece of string to the pole and take it down to the bean(tie loosely to the bean....)

chrisc

[thifasmom]

stumbled across this way of supporting runnerbeans last year and planned to use it but found i couldn't fit it in the space i planned to grow my runners this year, never mind maybe next year I'll attempt it.

http://chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=2100.0

now this is a long thread started in 2007 and still going so there are 21 pages to read but as i just looked it up again its the pictures interpursed through out the thread that really tweaks the imagination and will give you many ideas to alter it to suit your needs if anyone choose to try this method.

[Duke Ellington]

*Thifasmom* There are some allotments holders using a muntys frame on my allotment! I think its great that it allows space underneath for another crop !

Duke :)

[daileg]

there is a guy on our plots who has one of these as he suffers from back pain and cant reach to the top of the canes so he has as you say built a up side down frame as you would normally build start the canes on the ground a foot apart cross canes over so there apart at the top about two and a half feet .
at this point you will need to brace the canes through the middle for support .

meaning the canes cross over a bout a foot of the floor he has braced the middle down the centre and again at the sides .

then he got a 2x1 wooden batten drilled holes at even spaces for the tops of the canes to go through evenly spaced brace in this way at the long lengths and the depth so you end up with a frame all round the top for support .

then use canes to strengthen the whole frame to gether in a lattice affect in v's this will add the strength


I'm sorry for all this sounding a little vague if not understood PM with your address i can draw it better than i can explain it ill post you a drawing if needed or a photo of his

[Emagggie]

Thifasmom that's brilliant. Only got to page 4 so far, but I long for a munty's frame. Never mind, I'll have to work with the space I've got.
Thanks again Chris, it's all looking more do-able by the hour, especially as I found a bike wheel behind the shed and took the middle bits out, got the Man and a metpost and a piece of timber and some nails, took all to the plot in the pouring rain and persuaded him to erect the thing. I do need a bigger wheel, but I think I can do things with substantial wire if I can't find one.  On the lookout for another wheel for another support now or something else that will do the job.
Dialeg, I got so far and then got stuck! Will pm you.

[Tee Gee]

If the wigwam is upside down surely you will get less plants in a given area. i.e. either way plants would have to be planted around the circumference of a circle.

So as an example; lets say the wigwam is 3ft diameter at the top or bottom as the case may be;

 If formed upside down you will get a maximum of four plants at the base (apex) whereas you will get possibly get around a dozen plants if using an 'A' frame wigwam.

Personally I would sink a 3"x3" post into the ground fix an old bicycle wheel to the top and suspend support strings from the wheel.

Now my answer is based on what I think is meant by the term; "Upside down wigwam"

[1066]

I like the wheel idea - could also be used for Sweat Peas I reckon they'd look fab like that

[Emagggie]

That's more or less what we've ended up doing TeeGee. I have put a few canes in place though and it looks as though I'll get my 10 Tabaris beans round it.  Doing it this way I've got room for another support for another variety, which I wouldn't have if I had made a line or a wigwam (no chance of that,spacewise).
Sweet peas is a great idea 1066, I've got spares so I may do it in my garden. ;D