Topic: Dealing with plot holders who do little or no cultivation

[BAK]

We currently have a high demand for plots on our site and a number of plot holders who do little or no cultivation but still hang onto their plots. We have no allotment association and it is up to the parish council to deal with them at the moment.

Does anybody have any guidelines for dealing with such plot holders in a fair but firm manner?

Thanks

[sutton girl]

You can get in touch with the council to ask if the person on the plot is not well their might be a good reason why they  havn't been to the allotment if their isn't a good reason then the council should give him 4 weeks to sort it out and get it up to scratch and if he still do's nothing about it then the council have the right to pass it on to the next one on the list.

[kt.]

Could be just laziness. After the probationary period - if a person pays the annual rent then does nothing - the council cant take the plot off them till then year end as the contract fee is paid in full. The council have to wait till the contract ends and then refuse to renew it. The only possible way round this is to ask the tennant if they wish to continue with the plot.

Thats what we get told by or council anyway.

[monkey puzzle]

It's a condition of our tenancy that the plot is kept in decent order.  If not, the Council write reminding the plotholder of his/her obligation and will reclaim if no action is taken.

I noticed a lot of strimmer activity on our site after a rumour went round that the Council had been sending out letters.  One of the plots near ours was re-let and now looks heaps better.

[growmore]

We get every tenant to read or have read to them a tenancy agreement  which they sign...
We then give every one a little booklet with these in so no one can say they don't know them .
Ours states that you must cultivate at least 2/3 of your plot, strimming wouldn't be deemed cultivation ...
If in breach of these rules they are sent a 1st  letter telling them they are in breach of their agreement and giving them a time limit to sort it out .
If no respose from them re  illness etc then after the period is up a one month notice to quit is delivered to them personally ..
This may sound harsh but it ain't right  letting folks hang on to lotties that may fancy cultivating them at some time when there are folks on a waiting list that want to cultivate them  now...

[saddad]

I wish we could get rid of them that easily... we went to get rid of a plotholder and they called an EGM and we lost.. almost all the committee resigned in protest!
 ::)

[SnooziSuzi]

Could you approach your council to see if you could form an association?

If you did this and set out the rules from the start then you would be able to have these people booted off after the appropriate process has been followed without having to get the council involved.

Having said that, we have an association and it can still be difficult to manage this, as when people get their letters asking them to tidy up they come down and do a little bit and then don't come back for months and the whole thing has to start again.

I'm going to be talking to our members to see if we can revise our rules so that new tennants have a 'probationary period' where they must do certain things and if they don't then they have the plot taken off them.  I think a lot of newbies underestimate how difficult it will be becuase often plots are covered in weeds and full of rubbish that needs to be cleared before you can even start!

None of this helps you right now though :(

[Trevor_D]

Such a difficult one as I know, having just taken over as Plot Secretary! We are independent, so can set our own rules, which helps.

Our problem is that in the past we've always had spare plots, so 'tolerated' folk who did nothing but at least wrote us a cheque. But now we have a waiting list, and I find it very embarrasing standing next to a wilderness explaining to a would-be tenant that actually the plot is taken!

I've recently sent out several letters to 'sleeping' members, giving them 28 days either to contact us to explain why they aren't cultivating the plot, or to start doing something about it. A couple have returned their keys (with apologies), but most have started work, albeit slowly. I know I've displeased a couple of folk, but at least they've been replaced by tenants who are doing something with the plot.

And, interestingly, quite a few plot-holders who didn't receive letters are putting in a bit more effort as well. There's obviously a knock-on effect.

I agree with Suzi - if you can get a number of like-minded people around you, try to form an association and establish a committee to run the site. Then you'll have a lot more clout about who comes and who stays. And a probationary period is a good idea - something we've been considering.

[kt.]

Our council gave notice on a plot holder who has 3 plots (for different reasons though). He has got a solicitor involved so the council has had to do the same and is now pending a court case as he refuses to go. The council hasn't taken any rent for 3 years as they want him off and they couldn't do it if he has any contract left. Will be interesting.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Nightmare. We've got a court case going on over one of our plots; nine months with no movement and no cultivation, and the neighbours on both sides are complaining, with reason, about the state it's in.

We have a three-months probation, with no money changing hands. If they haven't done anything, they don't get a tenancy.

[BAK]

Thanks for all the replies so far. A few observations:

* I have always thought that phrases in a tenancy agreement such as “thou shalt cultivate the plot” … and “keep it in good order” are extremely vague … and so I am interested to hear growmore provide a definition of what constitutes “cultivated” (2/3rds of the plot on his site). Does anybody else employ a similar system?

* I agree with Trevor_D that the degree to which any rules are implemented must vary depending on the level of demand for plots

* I like Robert_Brenchley’s idea of an initial probationary period

* forming an association is unlikely to happen any time soon though I appreciate what SnoozSuzi is saying

I wrote to the NSALG and their unwritten guideline is three strikes and you are out, ie if you have not rectified the problem after receiving three warning letters then you  then it is reasonable to terminate your tenancy.

… Generally, not straightforward is it? .. not that I thought that it was.

Any further thoughts are welcome.

[Robert_Brenchley]

It's not straightforward because all sorts of things can happen. Someone changes their job, has a new baby, falls ill or has to care for someone, moves house, gets married, etc. etc, and for good reasons, their plot may be badly neglected for a bit. As long as the situation is explained, that should be OK. But if it's not sorted after, say, a year, then it's reasonable to ask whether they're going to be able to lok after it again. Then there's the question of what you do with the guy who's been there thirty years, done his stint on the committee, but is getting frail and can't cope. It doesn't seem right just to chuck him off. But once you see that someone's a tosser who's never going to cultivate, you really do need to get rid of them.

[Fork]

Sorry if this sounds nasty but "getting frail and can't cope" means to me that that person should give up his or her pot to someone who can look after it properly.

I would have thought most people in that situation would give up anyway.

[Eristic]

I would have thought most people in that situation would give up anyway.

Unfortunately, these people tend to hang on to their plot to the grim death and spend most of the time telling everyone about how good it used to be. They are not going to give up without a struggle and it is better to try to persuade them to reduce their holding rather than push them out. Cutting back to 5 pole or even 2-3 pole that can be easily managed is a good idea but even then their pride is hurt. It's a no-win situation.

[SnooziSuzi]

I proposed at the quarterly open meeting on Wednesday that we offer 'half plots' to people who don't want or couldn't manage a full plot.  I explained that this would mean that people who had a half plot would have less to manage and therefore may be more likely to keep it cultivated.

I expected a little bit of resistance, however not the absolout backlash and 'shooting-down-in-flames' that I got!

We have a rule that people cannot sublet their plot.  That means that I cannot rent a plot and then let someone else cultivate it for me, which in normal circumstances is fair becuase this can lead to people getting a plot 'by the back door'.

My proposal was that when we have an available plot, that it is formally split into two, i.e. 1a and 1b instead of just number 1. 

Comments were heard from the old timers like "if you can't manage a whole plot you shouldn't take one on at all!"  "This is subletting which isn't allowed!"   "What happens if you injur yourself on the other persons half of the plot??  who is responsible!!"

I was genuinely shocked at the narrow mindedness of thier comments and that they were all prepared to shout loudly about it without considering what was actually being proposed:  To split plots in order to a) reduce the waiting list; b) to create more manageable plots and; c) to generate more income per plot (I would have suggested the rent be set at £10 a year for a half plot, with a full plot being £16 becuase the rent is only to cover the amount of water used, and a half plot holder would likely still use as much water as many established full plot holders who use water butts).

It was my own fault for believing that they had common sense and that democracy was the way to go!

[dandelion]

Oh Suzi, that is so frustrating  >:(! I think your suggestion is very sensible.
I rent a half plot (5 poles) and so do lots of others on our site. In fact, the only full plots are cultivated  by couples  or retired folk.

[Robert_Brenchley]

You can't count on everybody to have common sense unfortunately; I've been having an endless struggle with a couple of people like that at church. there are two ways to deal with it; confrontation (which I don't like), or you can let them carry on, and encourage more sensible people, until the old fogeys lose all credibility and get swept aside. Unfortunately, that takes time.

[redimp]

My immediate neighbour lives next to his plot.  Every year he plants some potatoes and some beans and then lets them get on with it with no further input.  This year, his were one of the first to get blight buit he didn't seem to notice for two to three weeks.  By then, the rest of us had caught it and were busy nipping off blighted leaves, cutting back haulms and digging up spuds.  His bean rigs keep getting blown down and infrequently re-erected.  The beans just get longer and longer.  On the rest of the plot the weeds thrive and seeds blow around.  What he seems to do most is use the plot to burn rubbish from his garden - I suspect this is the prime reason for him having the plot and the limited culitvation he does in done just so he can't be evicted.  Whats worse is, I would really like his half plot because it is so close to mine and I could do with more space. >:(

[shirlton]

We could only get  a half plot on the allotment site where we live so have to travel about 5 mile away to another allotment site where we can have a full one. What gets me mad is when a person takes on a plot and before they have cultivated that take on another. They then do the two halves and decide that the 2 halves they have neglected they don't want and these are then let to someone else. This has happened where we are and the halves that they don't want are full of bramble. Its worse when you could do with an extra bit of ground and see someone else wasting it. We have someone who just lets things grow and doesn't even bother picking the bluddy stuff, but you ask them if you can have a bit of their patch and it "Oh No I'm going to do this or that with it" I'm on a roll now so better stop eh!.

[Sparkly]

The other problem with this is the fact that plots are allowed to get into an awful state. This means any new person has a horrendous task on their hands trying to get the plot into order. We have half a plot which isn't technically ours. It belongs to a friend and we cultivate about half of it. We have, in addition, taken on a full plot. This plot had been left to get into a terrible state. It has been a nightmare hacking through the brambles and actually attempting to find the paths. The whole plot is covered with bindweed. We have now got to a state where all of the brambles are hacked down and about 2/3 of the plot is covered up. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks we can get the bramble roots dug out so we can cover up the end of the plot. We can then start to work through the bindweed roots! I also think it is a good idea that during any period that the plot is not taken, it is covered up.