Topic: Asbestos, i need your help

[Gordon]

Hi Kipper

If the council & EH keep bouncing you from one to the other get in touch with the HSE as they inform the landlords they have a duty of care under the health and safety at work act and also COSHH (CONTROL OF SUBSTANCES HAZARDOUS TO HEALTH) which I'm am sure asbestos comes under. I hope this helps you.

Gordon

[Melbourne12]

Enough of the elfin safety agencies already! The more you talk to them, the more delight they'll take in making your life difficult.  That's what they do.  ;D

Whereabouts are you, kippers garden? If it's not far away we'll gladly come over with 4x4 and trailer and help you bag it up, and take it away.

[Robert_Brenchley]

If you're renting from the Council, it's the Council's responsibility to deal with the asbestos. When some was found on my site, they dealt with it with no problems at all. Have you thought of contacting a local Councillor?

[OllieC]

Melbourne, Keef, etc, am I glad for your posts. I know what I've said is "wrong", but everything's relative. I was rather expecting to be shot down & it's good to be reminded what a friendly & practical corner of the internet this is.

Pumper & Covcarrot - personal experience always makes it harder; my dad is busy dieing slowly from cancer & I really do know how painful it is to watch someone you love die. But that doesn't make me an expert on kidney cancer; although it does make me more emphatic, it doesn't make me more scientific. If either of your close/loved ones ended up with aspestosis from a one-off low exposure, then they're astonishingly unlucky.

I'm sorry, but emotions don't help with objectivity. The original post was looking for practical advice, and I believe the different options have been described.

[Trevor_D]

Our local recycling centre has a dedicated skip for asbestos. Possibly they all should?

I inherited a shed, originally made of wood, but clad later with both asbestos & corrugated iron. We demolished it, hired a lorry from someone we knew and took it to the dump. (Together with half a Morrison shelter and a fair bit of other stuff besides!)

But, if I understand right, asbestos isn't dangerous until it's broken up. So if it's just sitting there it's not a danger, even though it may be unsightly. And there are two sorts of asbestos, aren't there? One is fairly OK, but the other's a bit more lethal. Can't remember the details - knew them once; Senior Moment setting in - but I'm sure someone can confirm.

[kenkew]

Advice here, www.hse.gov.uk

Type asbestos in the search box.

[oggiesnr]

If the asbestos is whole and not fraying then I would leave well alone.  I would then do on eof two three things,  contact your local counciloor (epecially if its an opposition one) and let them make a fuss. Two-sheet it over and work the rest of the plot or three, give up the plot and make it perfectly clear why and at the same time contact the Environment Agency and advise them of contaminated land.

On no account would I try to move it or allow any non-expert to do so.  You do not want any fibres lurking in your soil, on leaves which you will disturb or blowing in the wind.

No allotment is worth risking your health for.

Be well

Steve

[kenkew]

 Most asbestos can be safely removed, but it's not for Kipper to deal with a problem which isn't his.
 Government advice seems pretty clear on this: The responsibility lies with the land-owner, not the tenant.

 Renting property shouldn't mean renting someone elses problem. If the land belongs to the council then they have a legal duty to deal with the problem.
Make sure a complaint to them is in writing with a copy to the local press and MP. (Let each of them know the others have been contacted). Attend your local Parish Council to voice your concern, that way what you say is mentioned in the minutes of the meeting and dated.
 Invite your local newspaper photographer...they'll take the whole problem off your hands. They love nothing better than 'attacking' the big boys.
 Go for it, Kip.

[keef]

Most asbestos can be safely removed, but it's not for Kipper to deal with a problem which isn't his.
 Government advice seems pretty clear on this: The responsibility lies with the land-owner, not the tenant.

 Renting property shouldn't mean renting someone elses problem. If the land belongs to the council then they have a legal duty to deal with the problem.
Make sure a complaint to them is in writing with a copy to the local press and MP. (Let each of them know the others have been contacted). Attend your local Parish Council to voice your concern, that way what you say is mentioned in the minutes of the meeting and dated.
 Invite your local newspaper photographer...they'll take the whole problem off your hands. They love nothing better than 'attacking' the big boys.
 Go for it, Kip.

If the asbestos is whole and not fraying then I would leave well alone.  I would then do on eof two three things,  contact your local counciloor (epecially if its an opposition one) and let them make a fuss. Two-sheet it over and work the rest of the plot or three, give up the plot and make it perfectly clear why and at the same time contact the Environment Agency and advise them of contaminated land.

On no account would I try to move it or allow any non-expert to do so.  You do not want any fibres lurking in your soil, on leaves which you will disturb or blowing in the wind.

No allotment is worth risking your health for.

Be well

Steve

For f-in sake - roofing asbestos its not that bad, I'd just put it all in a bin liner and take it to the dump - job done. If you'd been a roofer all your life working with asbestos id worry - but a couple of sheets on the lottie that need moving..

Thoushands of sheds are covered in it, and so are hundreds of barns and warehouses - the risk is minimal.. driving to the allotment to pick it up is statistically probably much more risky.

And people wonder why were becoming a nanny state..

[oggiesnr]

Quote from Keef

For f-in sake - roofing asbestos its not that bad, I'd just put it all in a bin liner and take it to the dump - job done. If you'd been a roofer all your life working with asbestos id worry - but a couple of sheets on the lottie that need moving..

Thoushands of sheds are covered in it, and so are hundreds of barns and warehouses - the risk is minimal.. driving to the allotment to pick it up is statistically probably much more risky.

And people wonder why were becoming a nanny state..

I agree, roofing asbestos is not that bad but if you read the original post you will see that the car is not big enough to take the sheets whole.  If you read the HSE and other sites they refer to firmly bonded sheets not requiring licences but needing careful removal and not being broken, breaking sheets can release fibres.  If you search the medical literature for asbestosis you find that if you are very unlucky the exposure required is very small.

Therefore I am not being a nanny, just very cautious, and I don't believe in taking an avoidable unnecessary risk.

All the best

Steve

[ACE]

This happened to me last week. The builders doing the extension on a friends house found aspestos sheets  on the ceiling and their boss took them off site for safety reasons and called in some aspestos removers to assess the type of aspestos and the risks.

The aspestos removers said it was a mix of brown and white, (without even testing it) sealed off the area and said they would remove it in 3 weeks time and it would cost £4,000 and take 4  days. They also said it was illegal to remove it himself.

I looked up our local council regulations and the government regulations on the internet and found out that we could legally remove it and as long as it was double wrapped, we could take it to the recycling centre providing we obtained a certificate of disposal. Which they issued to us.

So equipped with masks and disposable overalls and a hose pipe with a fine mist setting on the hose gun we took it down. Wrapped it in builders polythene sheeting and gaffer tape packed it on the back of my truck and took it to the centre. Time taken two men X 3hours.

At the centre they weighed us and told us which skip to put it in which we did along with anything that was likely to be contaminated.  It was an open skip half full of aspestos (not even wrapped). They weighed us on the way out and charged us £32 as it was over 60 kilos.

The builders boss  got a firm to do a reading at the building site which showed the area was a long way below the permitted contamination levels  and the builders came back on site.

Cost= £20 for masks and overalls, he gave me £250 for my trouble, £32  at the tip. I do not know what the firm cost to test the area but I bet it isn't nowhere near £4,000.

These removal people try and scare you into giving them big money.

[saddad]

Like Pumper and Cov Carrot I know how difficult it is when you know someone who has had asbestosis FIL died of it ( as did virtually all the York BREL teams who had to drill holes through cladding in confined spaces in the 50's and 60's).
It's the dust that is dangerous, hence avoid breaking and keep damp, wear masks and so on... our council have been collecting asbestos sheet from our site for ten years as we have brought more and more back from the wilds..
Get it shifted... and get your peace of mind back..
 :-X

[kippers garden]

Just wanted to say thank you for all your replies.  We are goingto buy the bags and the secretaries' husband is going to double bag it up (though he is going to break it up to do it).  My husband is going to help him move the bags to a different plot and then i'm hoping the secretary is going to arrange for different people to take a bag or two to the tip (not us though in our car). 

At least then it will be off my plot and not my problem anymore.....if it happens (i've been waiting since June already).....i'll let you all know.   

Once again thank you for all your replies