Topic: Asbestos, i need your help

[kippers garden]

I posted on here approx in June.  I took on a 2nd allotment (very overgrown which they charged me full price for) and i had found a pile of asbestos at the back of my allotment under brambles (which the previous allotment holder knew about).  I spoke to the allotment secretary who said her husband had the equipment, thru his work, to safely remove the asbestos.

Its August now and its still not been moved, though i keep cutting the brambles and weeds around it so it can be found again.  I keep asking the secretary politely but she always explains that her hubby is busy.  However, she now says he will only double bag it but not remove it.

I have since found another pile under some brambles!

I contacted our local council that rents the alloments out and they said that it is up to me to remove it safely without breaking it up.  I explained to them that we only have a tiny car and some of the sheets are approx 6' by 3'.  They told me i would then have to pay someone to remove it but to make sure that they were registered.

I rang round some companies and i was quoted between £200-£300 which i can not afford and i am not willing to pay.  My husband then rang the secretary and told her that we are not prepared to pay this and she advised that her husband would be breaking the abestos up before double bagging it (exactly what the council told us not to do)as he has the equipment.  My husband told her he would not have the bags in our car as there may still be asbestos fibers still on the bags after breaking it up and we have children in the car.

The secretary has said that if my husband helps to shift it after its been double bagged to another place then the allotment society will find another place for it but we must get the bags.

I know the secretary is trying to help, but I am at my wits end with this plot and i'm finding myself in tears over it time and time again.  Where on earth can i get bags for asbestos and what type do i look for?  I'm on the verge of giving this plot up (though it has wonderful plum trees where the asbestos is....pls pls can anyone give me some advice.

[manicscousers]

oh, KG..I feel for you, I'm afraid I've no advice to offer but I'm sure there's someone on here who can help..don't give up and good luck  :)

[OllieC]

I'd be fuming at this - essentially they've provided you with contaminated land. I'd say you have 2 choices - either become a real pain and contact environmental health, write letters to everyone you can think of, etc etc, or you could do what I would do which is to pick a rainy day (the heavier rain the better), break it up & put it into (double) bags & take it to landfill.

I realise that this second option is less responsible, but you just want it gone & there's no way I'd pay even a tenner for something that's not my fault.

When we were kids we used to break up the asbestos sheets on our local (illegal) tip & do disco dancing in the "smoke". Oh dear...

[northener]

MMM tricky, council as good as ever. I'd try yellow pages for local demolition companys if you get somebody understanding and local it wouln'nt be too much bother for them to dispose of. You deffinately don't want to be breaking it up. What would happen if you turned up with it at your local dump it site?

[kippers garden]

I did ring local people inthe yellow pages and they were the ones that quoted between £200-£300 to remove.  Also, i have rang the tip, they will take a small amount of it, approx 3 or 4 bags (though i think there will be about 20 bin liner sized bags there altogether).

Any advice on the sort of bags i should use?

[Barnowl]

Just because the council say you are responsible doesn't mean it's true!

I think the primary responsibility for the control of asbestos lies with the property owner. Property owners should demonstrate they have procedures in place to prevent asbestos's dispersion into the environment.

Doesn't sound like the council is fulfilling its obligations in this respect. Suggest an off the record chat with the local environmental health officer or CAB.  Off the record because it might give some clever clogs the excuse to move you off the site for safety purposes.

[Baccy Man]

As Barnowl has just said it is not your responsibility if the council own the site ask them to remove it, as landlord they have that duty of care. If an allotment association manage the site it will be their responsibility.
The only way in the world you could be responsible would be if it was you who had brought it onto the site which is not the case.
If the council or allotment association do not agree to remove it or attempt to charge you for removing it then make them aware you will contact the environment agency the local media etc... to let them know the allotments are being rented out whilst contaminated with hazardous waste.
As for the secretaries husband intending to break up the asbestos sheets before bagging them that is completely irresponsible & probably contravenes no end of regulations regarding the safe handling of asbestos. If that was going to happen on my plot I would make a point of mentioning it to the council & suggest they remove it before that happens or I would ensure there was a local news crew down there to film it happening guaranteeing loads of bad publicity for the council.

[Trixiebelle]

We've had the same problem on our site Kippers.

ALLEGEDLY the Council are responsible for moving it but they told us we'd have to get at least a skip-full to make it worth their while collecting it. Also, they wouldn't collect it from individual allotments, we would have had to pile it up in one spot ourselves.

Worth making a few more phone calls I reckon. Good luck  :)

[Tee Gee]

Any advice on the sort of bags i should use?

Our Council asbestos department use polythene tube 500g or 1000g.

The beauty of tube is you make the bag long enough to suit the contents you are putting in it, this saves breaking up the pieces. Once in the bag it is tied with a wire twist tie at either end.

I agree with the other comment  about contacting your environment agency, plus the council should have ensured that the plot was suitable for its purpose before letting it out to you.

So I would say the removal responsibility is theirs!!

As a last resort (only if you feel up to it) you could make a compromise and suggest if they supply the bagging material for you to fill and you position the filled bags at a convenient place for picking up.

Sorry I can't be of any more assistance than that.

[davholla]

Have you tried contacting your local councilor ?

[kippers garden]

Maybe that is the next step, but i don't want any bad feeling at the allotment as i spend so much time there.

[Pumper]

Although I have been a member of the Forum for a while, I have not posted yet, as I wanted to make sure I knew my stuff before pontificating. But this is something I have had a bit of experience with.

I would say, under no circumstances whatever, touch or move the asbestos. Don't let anyone else remove it either; whether well meaning committee members or otherwise. If anything goes wrong - such as a bag splitting - you will be held responsible. Also, if the Council are aware of it, they can come back in a few months and ask you what happened to it. All you'll be able to say is "I don't know", or "A nasty man came and stoled it!!".

Years ago, I used to transport asbestos in custom made skips, and the regulations we had to comply with were mind boggling. Now - several years later - you can guarantee the list will be a great deal longer and more complicated. I wouldn't go near the bloomin' stuff if I were you.


The plot owners have taken money from you for something that is not only unfit for its purpose, but is a serious health hazard. Please, please, please - get Environmental Health on the case straight away.

[kippers garden]

Enviromental health refered me back to the council and said it is the councils responcibility.  Can i go back to the EH agency and insist they take this up on my behalf?

[keef]

Although I have been a member of the Forum for a while, I have not posted yet, as I wanted to make sure I knew my stuff before pontificating. But this is something I have had a bit of experience with.

I would say, under no circumstances whatever, touch or move the asbestos. Don't let anyone else remove it either; whether well meaning committee members or otherwise. If anything goes wrong - such as a bag splitting - you will be held responsible. Also, if the Council are aware of it, they can come back in a few months and ask you what happened to it. All you'll be able to say is "I don't know", or "A nasty man came and stoled it!!".

Years ago, I used to transport asbestos in custom made skips, and the regulations we had to comply with were mind boggling. Now - several years later - you can guarantee the list will be a great deal longer and more complicated. I wouldn't go near the bloomin' stuff if I were you.


The plot owners have taken money from you for something that is not only unfit for its purpose, but is a serious health hazard. Please, please, please - get Environmental Health on the case straight away.

Asbestos is'nt very good for you - yes - but i think you maybe being a tad over cautious..


If you are worried i'd say just dont break it up, move it in whole pieces.

[kippers garden]

Your reply confuses me even more...why am i being told under no circumstances should i break this up or move it by the environment agency then?

[OllieC]

Because there's the "advice" side of things - which is maximum caution etc., and then there's the "what I'd do if it was me" side of things.

Nobody's going to officially tell you to do anything which could potentially expose you to danger. Any internet search advises maximum caution - they have to! But in reality, I reckon a lot of people (including me) would say "sod it, I need this to move & nobody else is going to do it".

Very annoying for you!

[keef]

I've assumed that your talking about asbestos cement sheeting (used on sheds and barn roofs) which is'nt as dangerous as other forms of asbestos..just dont break it up, read this,

http://www.eden.gov.uk/main.asp?page=3331

If its not sheet roofing but its ceiling tiles etc.. - then deffinatly be extremely careful.

[Pumper]

Enviromental health refered me back to the council and said it is the councils responcibility.  Can i go back to the EH agency and insist they take this up on my behalf?

It is most emphatically the Council's responsibility to remove the asbestos, BUT the Environment Agency has the responsibility to enforce it. If the Environment Agency are aware that the Council have told you to move it yourself, I would say that they would go ballistic.

It the job of Environmental Health to protect you from this kind of bad advice, and I would advise you to go back to them and tell them exactly what the Council have told you.

To keef: Yip, I know asbestos is bad for you, that is why there are so many safety regulations that apply to the handling and removal of it. Just as a throw away line: My father-in-law recently died of asbestosis, and was not a pleasant way to die.

[coventry carrot]

I couldn't agree more.

The HSE website gives a definition of who's responsiblity it is -

http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/campaign/duty.htm

- and give them a ring to check. They don't take kindly to people misusing asbestos.

It only takes one fibre to kill you as a friend is currently finding out.....

[quizzical1]

The following is advice I found in the Bradford Waste Management Section. I feel sure similar advice would apply throughout the country.
QUOTE:

Environment
You are in :
Environment > Waste Management > Asbestos Advice
Asbestos Advice
Welcome to the Asbestos Advice section of the Waste Management website.
This section will provide you with advice and guidance on the removal and disposal of bonded asbestos cement products.
Asbestos cement is a well bonded, sheet building material, commonly used for roofing and outbuildings such as garages. Care must be taken not to confuse it with asbestos insulation board which is similar in appearance, but much more hazardous since it is softer. The following advice applies to asbestos cement only; other types of asbestos are usually more hazardous and require more stringent precautions, and specialised handling and disposal.
Breathing asbestos dust is dangerous. Any work on asbestos cement may generate asbestos dust and we advise that the following precautions are taken to minimise the risk:
•   Avoid creating dust from asbestos cement.
•   Never sand down or wire-brush asbestos cement.
•   Do not use power tools on asbestos cement.
•   Avoid breaking asbestos cement.
•   When working with asbestos cement it is advisable to wear disposable overalls and face mask. Check that they are suitable for use with asbestos. You can get advice from safety equipment centres. After use. these should be disposed of as asbestos waste.
•   When-removing asbestos cement thoroughly wet it first, particularly around any fixings. Use an ordinary hosepipe or watering can for this, not a high-powered water jet. Add detergent to the water if possible.
•   If fixings are difficult to undo, try to cut them off rather than break the asbestos.
•   Asbestos cement waste must be wrapped in a double layer of strong polythene e.g., building grade Visqueen (500 gauge, minimum), and sealed with parcel tape or similar.
Failure to wrap or deal asbestos properly will result in a refusal of the site facilities.
•   Private householders should take their asbestos waste to the Household Waste Recycling Centre  You must telephone the site beforehand.  UNQUOTE

I suggest you phone your local waste recycling site first to see what their disposal facilities are and if you can take large pieces.