Topic: Vegetarian ?? ayone

[louise stella]

I've been veggie most of my life  - and see it as the norm so am not about to preach about converting anyone!  It's a personal thing - my daugter switched of her own accord at about 13 - she did some research about factory farms etc - and that was that!  So it's nice to have a fellow V in the house. My son is kind -of - but at 7 I feel he is just following suit and he does eat meat occasionally but will choose Quorn or whatever by choice given the chance. 

So yes! - to me the allotment and GYO is very important as I know we are eating food that is untampered with and fresh as it can be.  PLus the choice is wider and of course it's cheaper!

Louise

[legendaryone]

just some thoughts from a meat-eating don't really know what I'm talking about person....don't cows have to calve before they produce milk and aren't the calves then taken from them? And aren't milk-cows then needed to be milked twice a day to offload all the milk they produce for the baby they no longer have and are in agony if this isn't done? So if I've got even a bit of this right, why are you 'vegetarians' still drinking milk and eating milk products - the result of on-going cruelty?

Oh! and what happens to the milk cows when they're too old to be a viable commercial proposition?

And what became of their babies?  :'(

Another attack on vegetarians who are doing there bit for animal cruelty.
Have you ever given to charity ? Ever given them everything you have ? Sold your house, sold your car ? Why not ? Surley you believe in the charitys you give to ?

[Hyacinth]

Direct question to me, I feel, so a direct answer >:(

My questions were in the light of someone genuinely wanting knowlege, is all. No attack.

You then ask if I've ever given a 'charity' everything I have? The significance of this is what, I wonder ???

The answer tho, is that I've given away all the money I've had in my bank account at a certain time because the recipient needed it and I didn't - I was, after all, in a position to earn more and that person was not....but WTF that has to do with vegetarianism I cannot understand. :-\

[legendaryone]

Alishka, You asked why vegetarians are still drinking milk and eating milk products, I asked if you had given all to charity, you don't see the connection, i'll explain. If someone donates £10 children in need i don't ask them why they haven't donated more, i'm happy that they have made a donation, but non-vegetarians think it is ok to ask why vegetarians are still drinking and eating dairy products ignoring what they are actually doing to stop animal cruelty.
If you didn't mean to attack then i aplogise  :)

[carolinej]

It probably won't last and I know I could never be a proper vegetarian

Hey Jeannine,

dont put yourself down. What you are doing can only help to reduce animal cruelty. If evryone who feels strongly about animal cruelty does a bit, then that will all add up to less demand in the shops. The producers will then recieve less orders, and so breed less animals. That means less animals will suffer. It is not something that will change overnight, but if we all add a drop to the bucket, we will fill it eventually.

just some thoughts from a meat-eating don't really know what I'm talking about person....don't cows have to calve before they produce milk and aren't the calves then taken from them? And aren't milk-cows then needed to be milked twice a day to offload all the milk they produce for the baby they no longer have and are in agony if this isn't done? So if I've got even a bit of this right, why are you 'vegetarians' still drinking milk and eating milk products - the result of on-going cruelty?

Oh! and what happens to the milk cows when they're too old to be a viable commercial proposition?

And what became of their babies?

I agree that there is still cruelty going on in the dairy industry. I only use organic dairy products, as the animals are treated much better, although there are still problems with the methods used. I dont want to return to eating animals  just because I cant stop ALL cruelty.


It's good to discuss this, but please lets all stay friends ;D

cj :)

[Marymary]

Jeannine, Quorn do a quite nice roast thing which makes a good Sunday lunch, Tesco's do a nice nut roast or they are easy to make & Couldron sausages are so good I bet your John wouldn't tell the difference.  Any of these with all the trimmings & you have a traditional Sunday lunch. 

Funny how upset some people get about all this.   :) 

[Hyacinth]

Accepted. :)

Me, I eat meat tho I've not slaughtered animals. I have tho, the skills required to gut (paunch) carcasses, skin them & joint them. I've no problems with that. Each to his own.

 But I return to my question to vegetarians.......If your turn-off has its basis in cruelty to animals, then  surely the vegan stance that cruelty to animals encompasses milk production must be weighed?

Therefore, shouldn't your 'argument' (for want of a better word) be directed towards vegans?

They, then, would also answer my queries about my thoughts on milk production.....as I wrote initially, what do I know? Me, a City Slicker, who gets her info. from The Archers.....  ;D

End of the day, might give Food for Thought to Jeannine for her to decide what she'll be happy with?

[valmarg]

Would it be permissible for someone to give the carnivore's side of the discussion?

I am an unashamed meat eater, I have no intentions of becoming vegetarian nor, at worst, vegan.

The meat I buy is either from a local butcher or, travelling a bit further afield, from the Chatsworth Farm Shop.  The animals have been reared under humane conditions.  They have 'lived a free roaming life' as opposed to the supermarket intensively farmed creatures.  I would never, ever buy supermarket meat.  It has no provenance, it could have been reared anywhere in the world, and because it was packaged in the UK it can be classed as british.

My other irritation with vegetarians is the 'Lynda McCartney' et al syndrome, aka  substitutes for meat.  They make sausages from ersatz ingredients. It is made of 'stuff' to make you think it is meat.  Why don't you just eat the meat?

From one of the earlier posts 'Asda might do a 'nice tasting something or other' whether it be quorn, or any other tasteless pap.  Please,  don't try to insult we  carnivores with ersatz meat.

I think I am going against the grain with my opinion on this site, but I do enjoy my meat, and shall continue to do so, ad infinitum!!!

valmarg

[Jeannine]

I too love to eat meat and wether it is  killed humanely or otherwise the fact that I am  eating  somethings flesh is starting to bother me, so the logical  move for me is to stop eating itl For me it is that simple,I have nothing against anyone who eats meat or doesn't it is no different to me saying I am stopping eating fish cos it makes my urine smell funny. It is just  basic thing that has crept over me for some years, it is getting stronger and I feel it is time to act on it.XX Jeannine

[Hyacinth]

I am stopping eating fish cos it makes my urine smell funny. It is just  basic thing that has crept over me for some years, it is getting stronger and I feel it is time to act on it.XX Jeannine

As an ex geriatric nurse I can tell you it's a age thing, J !- older you get the more it pongs  :P ;) ;D

[shirlton]

asparagus does that to me but I'm not gonna stop eating it. At least mines not gonna be put down to my age. hahahaha

[grawrc]

Funnily enough the milk thing bothers me more than the meat. Having breastfed my 3 kids I certainly wouldn't appreciate being made to produce milk for the whole of my natural life and have it pumped off at regular intervals. Also can't be much fun to go through pregnancy and labour and then have your baby taken away....  Time after time..

Meat on the other hand I buy from the local farm. The animals have a good life and are slaughtered humanely.

I tend to buy farmed locally sourced fish provided I know it has had good living conditions rather than depleting stocks of natural wild fish. The horrors of massive nets containing living creatures most of which get dumped as dead carcases are not for me.

And I eat more and more vegetables so less and less meat.

I sometimes wonder whether cabbages cry when we chop them up. Also find myself thinking of scifi situations (eg The Matrix) where we are aghast at "aliens" doing to us in fiction what we do to other animals in reality.

Then there's the food chain... but other carnivores and omnivores kill when they're hungry they don't create farms and massive stores of ready food.

So many questions such unsatisfactory answers.

I blame Lish!! ;D :P

[pye]

My other irritation with vegetarians is the 'Lynda McCartney' et al syndrome, aka  substitutes for meat.  They make sausages from ersatz ingredients. It is made of 'stuff' to make you think it is meat.  Why don't you just eat the meat?

From one of the earlier posts 'Asda might do a 'nice tasting something or other' whether it be quorn, or any other tasteless pap.  Please,  don't try to insult we  carnivores with ersatz meat.

It was me earlier, banging on about quorn. I love meat, would eat red meat every day if I could, but now I'm Middle Aged and some days I can almost hear my arteries hardening. So I eat the fake stuff once or twice a week. It's good. No, really.  :P

Quorn is great because it takes on flavours really well, works perfectly with marinades etc. Also, with the fake stuff, there's never any gristle :-X

I admire anyone prepared to give up bacon butties for their principles. I was a veggie for four years in my teens, then one sunny day my dad threw some chicken on the barbie, and that was the end of that.

[Hyacinth]

I blame Lish!! ;D :P

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I think it's really good that our awareness of animal husbandry's been raised.

 I still don't know the facts about milk-producing cows tho...do they have to be repeatedly impregnated to keep the flow coming, or is it the continued milking that keeps the supply on tap? And what happens to cows which have come to the end of their useful life?

Told you that I'm a City Slicker :-[ Twas only a couple of years ago that I realized that many cows also suffer intensive rearing conditions in sheds.

As a committed carnivore who would probably not baulk at cannibalism given extreme circumstances when there was a handy supply of fresh meat, now that I know how cheapo meat is produced, I wanted to buy only 'happy meat from contented animals'. But then I realized that those same happily reared animals can be transported under stress to a Government Approved abattoir some distance hence, and I'm not happy with this, or the methods of stunning & stringing up before killing.

SO...I prefer to eat game and pick the shot out. To clean out a full crop of undigested feed signifies to me, at least, a swift end. Then I watched deer being shot.....was happy with that, as I saw a swift end in natural conditions - and the rest of the herd not even bothered. So that was OK.

More and more tho, I eat less and less meat, cos my vegetable cooking's tasty and filling on its own.

Except today. Unless there's a three-legged happy lamb hopping round a field somewhere ;)

[Jeannine]

I aint giving up fish, pong or no pong, just meat XX Jeannine

[cleo]

I was a veggie for a few years,but I just missed meat and where I now live I can get quality stuff.

Advice to anyone wishing to convert?-don`t go for psuedo `meat` products there is a whole world of tasty nutritious recipes out there without needing them.

It takes a bit longer and maybe a bit more planning to soak beans and pulses etc but for anyone converting I wish you well and you can eat wonderfully-it`s not just nut cutlets and bean curd

[Meg]

I  do like food but....... don't see the point of taking out one processed food for another. How ever some times I just crave a bit of processed too. I like the idea of having a few day veggie style but oh Thursday is hot pork sandwich day at work and it just makes my week. I start looking forward to it the moment I finish the previous Thursday. Yum apple sauce, stuffing, pork and crackling. :)

[glow777]

I eat meat, I will always eat meat and apart from the sauce its the best thing about any meal IMO.

However I respect anyones wishes who wants to stop eating meat and I respect the food I eat and the animals welfare. Financially if I won the lottery I would love to eat only organic free range animals but at the moment this isnt 100% possible.

Good luck with your endeavours Jeannine

PS if your ever passing through Buxton feel free to drop off that freezer full of meat and you can have my whole years squash harvest - well some of it anyway!

[Froglegs]

The way i look at it is my body was designed to eat meat so i do!. :)

[emmy1978]

My sister has been veggie for ten yearsish i think, basically for the same reason as Jeannine - she can't stand the thought of eating 'flesh' as she puts it. I make veg stew for her, baked squash with lovely creamy mushroom filling etc. I only serve meat based dishes 3/4 times a week and i guess that as i start harvesting my own veg it may even be less. I too only buy happy meat but you are always aware of the loopholes that are employed to enable things to be called free range or organic or British.
Poor Alishka! Vilified!! I see what you mean about the milk question. I have a hippy mate who says the same thing about milk cows lives, she says it's disgusting to drink cows milk and is always banging on about it to me about the girls, how could i etc. I went out with a dairy farmer once ( don't ask) and now i come to think of it they did have a bull in a field - what was he for if not to impregnate the cows, activating milk production. Other mammals only lactate when they've given birth so surely the same for cows. You can almost see why people become macrobiotic can't you? Nothing is safe. Just forage for nuts and berries at the roadside, licking puddles for water, live Ray Mears style in woods... ;D