Topic: Oh No, Not Wyvale!

[froglets]

Just found out my local-ish independent " Garden Centre" Bridgemere Garden world has been bought by a consortium led by Wyvale Garden Centres.

To quote the newspaper article " Bridgemere, which employs 240 people, is to broaden what it offers to compete with Trentham Gardens"

I'd like to hope this is a good thing, but I have horrible visions of a Garden Invaders theme park and Tommy & Charlie look alikes.  The main loss I suspect will be the huge quantity of plants that Bridgemere grow themselves.  If they start importing too many factory farmed plants from Europe and abandoning the local economy supporting growing fields, I will struggle to justify spending my wages there.

Bah Humbug.

[Hyacinth]

 :'( by-bye independent Nursery. Hello Shopping Emporium.

It happened here and hasn't been a change for the better; in fact I can't think of any advantages....oh OK, the end-of-season sale of seeds at 25p a packet might have been an exception :)

Our G.C. is in a quiet little hilly road. The ginormous pantechnicons from Holland, Scotland & Devon regularly thunder down, become unable to make the turn into the G.C., churn up peeps' garden frontages & raise blood pressures in the effort....not the fault of the drivers, cos they've no idea of the nightmare they're being sent to, but repeated applications to Wyvale H.O. in Hereford to limit the size of the delivery trucks seem to fall on ears that go deaf or memories that suffer short-term loss...bog-standard bedding plants, etc., no specialist knowledge or services offered....

[Melbourne12]

We've got a Wyvale within an easy walking distance.  If ever I feel the need to plant a wickerwork reindeer with fairy lights on our lottie, you can be sure that Wyvale is the first place I'll turn to.  ;D

[tabbycat]

I asked a salesgirl in my local branch if they had any more mypex and  the reply was...... "is that a kind of shrub?"

My OH nearly choked trying not to laugh at the look of sheer disbelief on my face.

I'd go to our local family run one but they are at least two or three pounds more expensive on everything they sell, even the range of pink stuff in aid of Breast Cancer. I'd like to think that they pass on the extra profit to the charity but I'm not convinced.

I know they're competing with the chains, but they take every opportunity to screw every penny from you. It's put me off shopping there. Shame because they have some really nice stuff.

[Palustris]

Now come on, they will probably sell off the majority of the land for housing round Woore!

[froglets]

Good thinking Paulstris, with the example of the "improvements" to Nantwich as a result of the huge housing estate there, how could anyone not look forward to the opportunity.

Melbourne, you mean you haven't got one already, how do you cope?

OH is panicking that they won't get their free lunch when they take part in the vintage vehicles & machinery day.  Assuming something so non commercial still goes ahead.

It will be awful if all the knowledgeable staff who are actually interested in plants get marginalised out for gum chewing teenagers.

To be fair, Bridgemere is also a huge shopping emporium and the biggest selection locally for Christmas tat.  The Ravenscrofts had to diversify to entice people out to the sticks outside of the spring bank holidays & have made a hugely successful pair of symbiotic business streams out of it all.  Like Walls doing ice cream for summer and Sausages for winter.  But the plants were never downgraded in importance which is why I would always trek out there just for a look every now & again.

[wahaj]

um...when i went to wyevale i thought it was a very good garden centre. I mean there are a few garden centres around here....but there isn't any fantastic private nursery that can rival a big garden centre. I don't normall like big chain centres...because they have the same plants allover the country so you can't really achieve some unique planting. But it does mean everyone has the same resources and the ability to make as good a garden as someone else.

It's the garden centres attached to DIY stores and supermarkets i don't like. they treat their plants badly and know nothing about it. The wyevale i went to was pretty good. Huge selection of interesting plants that were fairly priced. And there was a lot of specialist equipment there aswell.

[Garjan]

So thats where all our plants go...

It really funny to read all your complaints about Wyvale. This summer we were holidaying in South England and I loved your garden centres. I have never seen the variety of vegetable and herb seeds in the Netherlands as I saw in Wyvale's. Rows of tomatoes and beans, exotic and heritage stuff, beet root and chard in all colours of the rainbow. And they were on sale as well: 50% off.

I understand the arguments against Wyvale, but it could be so much worse...
Our main chain of garden centres, Intratuin, does about four kinds of beans, a sharp and a round seed spinach, three tomatoes and winter and summer carrots. This is a bit of a caricature, but not very much so.
And as for nurseries, there are a few specialised growers of heritage vegetables and fruit trees, there are organisations that sell a large variety of veg seed, but they often are in the far away parts of the country and not easily reached physically. Bless the internet!

Also, you can buy books on allotmenteering and growing vegetables in your bookstores! I bought 3 this summer and still enjoy reading them. The books on growing your own in the Netherlands are for real beginners, those who are about 6 years old and start with garden cress on cotton wool. ::)

So keep complaining and objecting against homogenisation and the loss of varieties, keep asking for GYO books. Do not allow the UK to become like the Netherlands horticulturalwise.

[wahaj]

the main issue garjan is UK is a very small country that's always fought for it's identity. The british enjoy preserving what they have and being proud of it. I understand with wyevale can bring...a lot of variety to one area.....but what it does over all the country is reduce the variety you're getting. All wyevals will probably sell the same thing.

There seems to be a mov going in UK where we're trying to go back to the more naturelistic roots we had and preserve the lifestyle we had. And due to the UK having some bad experiences of people in local towns loosing jobs because of big companies coming over and pissing all over the rest of the competition. In recent years people have been encouraged to go down the organic route.

Fair enough you're you get so much more variety and sometimes a better value for money.....BUT are you selfish enough to do that.....or think about your community and think of the effect it will have on it.

UK is one of the most developed countries and people are starting to become sick of the whole developed world in the sense that everything's put on the plate for you. Where as developing countries are still fighting over things we've had for years.....so maybe if they get huge supermarkets....they'll appreciate them for now....but in time they'll realise the long term damage they cause.

Not that the netherlands are a developing area....but im' sure you get what i mean.

[Garjan]

Hello Wahaj

That was exactly my point: in the Netherlands we lost a lot because there was not enough protest against chains of supermarkets, garden centres, and other commercial industries taking over and reducing everything. From vegetable varieties to the choice of clothes to the taste of food on your plate.

I'm not envious of your huge supermarkets, I try to point out that the situation in the UK is better than in the Netherlands.
Sure Wyvale, being a big company that can compete smaller businesses out of the market, is not ideal. But at least they still sell the huge variety. Intratuin, our chain of garden centres, chose to limit the varieties of plants, seeds and trees for economic reasons. So not only do they reduce variety because they're the only ones that supply: they reduced variety also by limiting the range of products they sell. In the Netherlands variety has been reduced on two levels and twice as fast in the last ten years!

I am glad the British try to preserve what they have, because we've lost a lot. The Dutch have never been aware of any identity and let 'the market' take over. The majority is for convenience and critical consumers are a niche. So, I wasn't mocking your complaints and objections against Wyvale. I support and encourage you.

And as for the Netherlands being a developing country: no we are not, but sometimes I wish we hadn't developed so fast and taken some time to reflect on the consequences and effects on the community, both national and global.

[wahaj]

Hello Wahaj

That was exactly my point: in the Netherlands we lost a lot because there was not enough protest against chains of supermarkets, garden centres, and other commercial industries taking over and reducing everything. From vegetable varieties to the choice of clothes to the taste of food on your plate.

I'm not envious of your huge supermarkets, I try to point out that the situation in the UK is better than in the Netherlands.
Sure Wyvale, being a big company that can compete smaller businesses out of the market, is not ideal. But at least they still sell the huge variety. Intratuin, our chain of garden centres, chose to limit the varieties of plants, seeds and trees for economic reasons. So not only do they reduce variety because they're the only ones that supply: they reduced variety also by limiting the range of products they sell. In the Netherlands variety has been reduced on two levels and twice as fast in the last ten years!

I am glad the British try to preserve what they have, because we've lost a lot. The Dutch have never been aware of any identity and let 'the market' take over. The majority is for convenience and critical consumers are a niche. So, I wasn't mocking your complaints and objections against Wyvale. I support and encourage you.

And as for the Netherlands being a developing country: no we are not, but sometimes I wish we hadn't developed so fast and taken some time to reflect on the consequences and effects on the community, both national and global.

ah i see what you mean. So what's the gardening world like in the netherlands? I mean it's a craze that's been going round here for a few years....i mean the british have always been obssessed with gardening....but all this property development and the increase and property prices...people have HAD to wake up and look at their gardens.

For example....like the americans are much more involved in their DIY. even though we have so many DIY programs and shops....we still aren't as far developed in that sense as some of the americans.

Do people in the netherlands in general care about their gardens?

Like in pakistan....to dream of becoming a gardener was digging your grave. People didn't really care too much.

[Garjan]

There are two trends in gardening in the Netherlands. The first one is the maintenance free garden. Due to all kinds of television programs, people really think that there is such a thing. The result being that paved over plots in front of the house and in the back are called 'gardens'. And no, they don't fill it with a lot of plants in containers. You have to look after them and we don't want that, do we?
The more costly form of the maintenance free garden is the designer garden. Lots of evergreen shrubs in geometrical patterns and concrete slabs. Really beautiful in a way, but not natural or authentic.

Another, much smaller trend is time (and money) consuming gardening. From the older ladies who enjoy spending there days in creating beautiful cottage gardens, gardens for butterflies or formal herb gardens, to younger people who start an allotment because they want know their food on a firstname basis. 

Time in the Netherlands is a scarce product (hence the maintenance free garden), but it becomes more acceptable to spend it digging and pruning as it can be legitimised as being a good substitute for exercising. The reason for gardening in the Netherlands being time consuming is also due to the fact that you really need to make an efford if you want more than the four beans from Intratuin. You have to search the internet or go to specialised nurseries and gardens. The older Dutch allotmenteers stick with their traditional crops and cannot help you with seeds or advise. I enjoy the knowledge of the migrant allotmenteers about 'ethnically divers' crops.

As money is not so scarce, those who enjoy gardening are being seduced to spend as much as they can by the commercial vultures who recognise a market. Look stylish in Burberry wellies, start a Tuscany herb garden. We are below sealevel and it rains a lot, so all Mediterranean plants are waterlogged if you don't prepare your plot, but who cares. Next year there is another garden rooky to discourage. 
Sorry if I sound a bit cynical.

Gardening in the Netherlands is just not something for a large group of people. There is a very small group of organic growers of their own, and the old ladies with the well maintained gardens are also not very numerous. I think the more wealthy people keep the industry alive, as they have the bigger gardens, the gardeners and the variety of plants.
And although a lot of people wouldn't give up their garden, they use it mainly functional, as a place to put your chair in summer or to let your children play, not as a piece of or an extension of nature.

[valmarg]

Thank you froglets for warning me that Bridgemere has been sold off.  The last time we went there (from North Staffs) was a disaster.  They were busy building new 'greenhouses', that the plants we had gone to buy were in an incompleted glasshouse, and the young plants, ie fuchsias, surfinia and million bells petunias had all been frosted.

At that particular visit I can remember talking to a customer who said he remembered Bridgemere when it was just a couple of sheds in a field.  I quoted to him that my husband, only that morning, had said that he remembered when Bridgemere was a garden centre!!

The name Wyevale rings a bell, insofar as I believe they have a branch in Rocester, Staffs.  I have been in a couple of times, but when it comes to plant sales, they are sadly lacking.  They are more interested in selling books, cards (Christmas, birthday, et al).  They also have a caff (aka restaurant).  Plants seem to be the last thing they want to sell!!

To buy anything 'out of the ordinary' in the plant world seems a very difficult task!!

valmarg

[ACE]

The more costly form of the maintenance free garden is the designer garden. Lots of evergreen shrubs in geometrical patterns and concrete slabs. Really beautiful in a way, but not natural or authentic.

 

We design gardens for real and your remarkabout them being not natural or authentic is a bit unkind to most designers. Now I know a few celebrities have jumped on the bandwagon and have not ,and never will  have a clue.

 When a garden is designed for a client, it has to take account of the style of house, the personality of the client, it has to fit in with the surroundings and the amount of aftercare it is going to receive.

But most the most important bits are the type of soil, which compass point it faces, is it a wet or dry area, light and shade,also the garden has to be sustainable. in fact every thing is based around the type of plants you can use to make it as natural as you possible can in a usually restricted area.

A lot of our customers do not realise that plants need certain conditions to grow. Even a contributor to this site gave us a look at their garden design and when asked which way the garden faced they did not even know.

So you see most of the real designer gardens are very much thought out, but as they are designed for one person they are not going to be to anybody else's taste. One thing they are though  they are natural and authentic.

Now we also design gardens for garden shows, and I expect these are the ones you are referring to. These are purely entertainment for the paying public, although when they are judged by the RHS they still have to fit into the brief that you send in beforehand. ie type of soil, aspect, dry/damp. You know the rest.

We like to express our own views and style at these shows and although most people would not have them in  their back yards, there are quite a few ideas that can be taken and used in an ordinary garden.

Our first words when interviewing a new client is to tell them there is no such thing as a maintenance free garden. (yes we interview them)

And to get back on thread look up what I have said about Wyevale in previous threads, they would have to pay me to shop there. But I am luckier than most as I have small nursery to grow my own and if I cant I buy wholesale.

[valmarg]

ACE - BULLSHIT!!!!!

[Hyacinth]

ACE - BULLSHIT!!!!!

Why ::) How ::)

[froglets]

Hi Valmarg,  Sorry you had a bad experience, I've always found the plants to be in pretty good condition.

Wahaj,    "but there isn't any fantastic private nursery that can rival a big garden centre"   That's why "losing" Bridgemere could be such a pain - I can't remember how many acres they have of outdoor plants in the sales area, but they have enough space to devote 6 acres to display gardens.  The selection of available plants has been better than any chain I've been to.  Not unusual to have say 15 varieties of Crocosmia or a dozen daylilies, 50 clematis and the range of plants they cover is exceptional.  It's the plants first philosophy that I think will suffer.

[southernsteve]

We used to have a large independent garden centre, Snowhill. Privately owned and a nice place to go and have a wander round and have a cup of tea. It was always being improved and though a bit expensive, everything was of good quality. A couple of years ago it was sold to another of our large retailers, Haskins. Well I was warned by a mate of mine in Southampton to expect the worst, and yes he was right. The place is cold and uninviting, the quality of all the goods have gone down hill, and I now only go there if I am desperate.

Yes there is some competition in the local area, Guess what? Yes you got it Wyvale. What a complete waste of time if you want anything to do with gardening. I now go to the local nurseries or travel out to the other side of Horsham to the Old Barn if I want anything. My only worry here is that they are expanding. I just hope they don't sell up as well.

There is a twist in the tail here. The family who owned Snowhill have reportedly got bored with retirement and opened a new store somewhere else.

[Garjan]

Oh dear, oh dear ACE.
I didn't mean to be unkind to designers with my remark about designer gardens being unnatural or not authentic. This is definitely a case of semantics, me not being a native speaker of the Queens English.

In Dutch 'designer something' tends to denote (at least in critical circles) that that something is shallow, superficial, meaningless.
So to me there is a difference between a garden created by a professional designer (a designed garden) and a 'designer garden'. The first ones are the gardens you probably set up, taking into acount soil, light and other circumstances that will allow a garden to be beautiful and the plants healthy.
The designer garden on the other hand, is created by people without a clue. Think Patsy and Edina: "Look sweety darling, these slabs are from Nepal. Terribly expensive, but they had to be carried by yaks. Oh shoo, shoo! Get these birds away from that tree. They just fly and sit on branches without thinking. The whole design is off balance."
And there are a lot of Patsy-and-Edina characters (enough money, no sense) in the Netherlands who take the ideas you present in a show or they see in glossy magazines and reproduce them in their backyard without noticing the conditions you and other professionals take into account.

And maintenance free gardens do exist here. Just throw away everything at the end of the season, take out all plants that dropped its flowers or leaves and 'decorate the garden' again next year.