Topic: WHY DO AMERICANS SEEM TO USE THE HOT WATER METHOD FOR PRESERVING JAMS ETC?

[Duke Ellington]

Hello

I have been doing a little reading today on jam/preserve making and came across various american web sites using the hot water method for making jams and preserves.
Can someone explain to me why?
What are the benefits of this method over the usual UK method?
My jam etc that I make seems to last for months and sometimes over a year without any problems whatsoever.

Duke Ellington

[birdsrfun]

Not sure what hot water method is - will have to look it up! :-\

[Duke Ellington]

the hot water method is .....potting your jam or jelly and then submersing the filled jar in boiling water for a period of time. I understand why this needs to done with fruits and vegetables etc but don't understand it for jams etc ....

Just a little confused ....Duke  :)

[pumkinlover]

If I'm "selling" (for fundraising for site or charity) I sometimes pop jars back on the stove to heat through again after potting.
My hope is to kill off any mould spores or whatever that may have got in despite my meticulous sterilization and immaculately clean kitchen  ;D ;D ;D
May be americans are frightened of being sued!!by themselves ;) ;)
Jeannie pointed me to this website when I was using an out of date method  for bottling tomatoes.
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html
Anne x

[Morris]

American books/websites on preserving are a bit terrifying and best avoided or treated with caution!  I never thought of botulism in my preserves until 'they' put the idea into my head.

Acid/sugary preserves should be quite safe.  It's only when bottling low acid fruit or vegetables you need to worry.  I pot mine hot into warm jars, and seal whilst still warm.  Usually a vacuum forms and I keep them well over a year without any problems.

May be americans are frightened of being sued!!by themselves ;) ;)

I think this is the answer - or the recipe writers are certainly afraid of being sued!

[pumkinlover]

American books/websites on preserving are a bit terrifying and best avoided or treated with caution!  I never thought of botulism in my preserves until 'they' put the idea into my head.

Acid/sugary preserves should be quite safe.  It's only when bottling low acid fruit or vegetables you need to worry.  I pot mine hot into warm jars, and seal whilst still warm.  Usually a vacuum forms and I keep them well over a year without any problems.

May be americans are frightened of being sued!!by themselves ;) ;)

I think this is the answer - or the recipe writers are certainly afraid of being sued!

 ;D ;D ;D
Still nice of Jeannie to point me in the right direction!

[Jeannine]

They use it because they do tons more annual research into food prep . Preserving a food is a way of life, we and I mean the Canadaians and the Americans preserve everything right down to meat and fish so rely very much on the Dept og Ag to keep us safe

Britain is a way behind on research and potentially some of the methods are harmful

The hot water method of preservation is only used for low acid items.jams, jellies, pickles and fruits, even tomatoes which are almosr midline on the acid scale now are better prssure canned to be super safe unless you add vinegar or acaetic acid to the jar.

Link is to USDA canning guide is on site, IT IS AN EXCELLENT READ.

It is updated regularly ..there is no such publication in the UK

iT IS THE MOULD SPORES IN JAMS AND JELLIES IN JAMS AND JELLIES NOT BOTULISM WHICH IS THE PROBLEM.

We trust in so many things so why gamble on out dated methods of food prep when we truly care about our families.We don't have the means to study these things ourselves.

We trust folks to tell us about fertiliser !!

XX Jeannine

[Jeannine]

Duke, jusr re read your question.

Go to the link for the USDA site and read the chapter on jams, it will tell you about mold spores which are killed by water treatment.

XX Jeannine

[Morris]

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/uga/uga_processing_j_j.pdf (link from USDA site)

"Should I worry about mold?
But is there a safety hazard in some molding of a jam or jelly?  The best answer is that
there is a potential risk.  However, we want to make a recommendation that minimizes all
potential problems and hazards.  Some molds growing on fruit products made at home have been
shown to produce "mycotoxins", or mold poisons.  The danger to humans from consuming
mycotoxins, as well as the actual expected incidence of mycotoxins from moldy jars of jams, are
issues with no easy answers.  But, animal studies indicate there is the potential for poisonous
effects of some mycotoxins in humans.  Patulin is one mycotoxin detected in a few tested jars of
homemade apple jam and juice.  Patulin has been shown to be carcinogenic in animals, but its
role in causing human disease is not all that clear.  It is also difficult to assess the actual health
risk from consuming moldy jam or jelly because not all molds produce mycotoxins, and molds
which do produce them vary in consistency of production when conditions change some."


IMO jams/chutneys are perfectly safe prepared in the time-honoured British way, presuming you are scrupulous about sterilisation/hygiene and jar when hot. Bottling is more of a concern and here the US/Canada is way ahead of us.  I agree I would prefer to follow US guidelines for bottling.  However, when you have prepared a lovely fresh-tasting strawberry/raspberry jam for your own home consumption, boiling it for 5-10 minutes in a water bath seems a shame.

iT IS THE MOULD SPORES IN JAMS AND JELLIES IN JAMS AND JELLIES NOT BOTULISM WHICH IS THE PROBLEM.

XX Jeannine

Botulism is more of a worry because you have no way of seeing it is there and it is potentially fatal.  It is also exceedingly rare in the UK - no doubt because we do not have a canning culture.  Mould, as above, is only a 'potential' risk.  If you get it - which in my preserves is extremely rare and usually when they have been left uneaten in the fridge for ages - you can see it is there and chuck the contents.

It all depends on your view of risk - nothing is 100% safe.  I am sure statistically making your own preserves is far more dangerous than the possibility of mould spores - unless, of course, you have other health issues/immunity problems that make you more vulnerable.

PS I am actually not that keen on risk myself - which is why when I thought about bottling my own tomatoes I did masses of research, and opened a 'can' ( ;D ;D ;D) of worms/possible health risks I hadn't thought of before!  I am extra cautious about bottling and am thinking about importing a pressure canner, and wouldn't even consider meats/fish/vegetables.  But I refuse to get worried about my lovely strawberry jam, really I do!
Thanks, Jeannine, for your concern to keep us all safe!!   :)

OOh, PPS - I am now a half acre  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[galina]

I have been doing a little reading today on jam/preserve making and came across various american web sites using the hot water method for making jams and preserves.
Can someone explain to me why?
What are the benefits of this method over the usual UK method?
My jam etc that I make seems to last for months and sometimes over a year without any problems whatsoever.

Not just in the USA and yes, it is for all the reasons Jeannine and Morris mentioned.  I have another reason.  I used to fill boiling hot jam and chutney into boiling hot sterilised jars and got the scars to prove it.  Nothing awful, just that I seemed to accidentally splash myself regularly - and hot sugary liquids really burn!  I now use well-washed cold jars (inverted onto a clean tea towel after washing) and fill with slightly cooled jam/chutney.  No more burns.  As I am used to doing all my fruit and juice preserving in a waterbath cauldron anyway, it is equally easy to give my jams a quick 5 minute sterilise (when water has come up to the boil).  And they keep for years.

[Duke Ellington]

Thanks for the link re USDA ....it does make very interesting reading.

Ok I think I will continue to make jam and chutney in the usual UK way. I feel confident and happy and as so many make jams this way in the UK I will continue to do so. Most of our allotment ladies would have keeled over and died by now if there was a huge risk involved.
I alway manage to get a very good vacuum seal on my jams as I fill them using very hot jam and chutney! into hot jars!! I love to hear that popping sound after filling.
However I am thinking of making some ketchup and salsa this year using my home grown tomatoes and even though the ketchup has vinegar included I will  give the salsa and ketchup the hot water treatment after bottling. This makes sense to me. If nothing but to prolong shelf life and give me a bit more room in the freezer.
Canning/bottling meat and veg I have no real interest in doing. And would prefer to freeze these items.

So now I can use my lovely new WECK JARS!!  (anyone else get excited by preserving jars)???? I know I'm nuts I cant wait to build  up a collection of these jars . They are indeed a thing of beauty ;D


Duke

[pumkinlover]

What is a Weck Jar Duke?
Anne

[Morris]

Ooh I just googled weck jars - they look lovely:

http://www.weckcanning.com/

Now I have jar envy  ;D

[antipodes]

I don't sterilise jam but I tend to keep it upside down! That stops it going mouldy (although I have never had mould, I always make sure the jars are boiling hot and the lids!)
However for salsa or tomato sauces I fill the jars with the liquid when it has just finished cooking and is piping hot, then put it in a pan of water on a rolling boil for about 15 minutes. This puts a good vacuum seal on the jars and I have never had any problems with them, using them several months later.
I wouldn't preserve anything meaty myself though...

[SueK]

Thank you  so much, pumpkinlover and Jeannine, for the documentation links - I have been looking for a pickled sliced chilli recipe for quite a while and found one in there, as well as a wealth of other recipes which I think would appeal to my family.

Now all I have to do is grow the chillies!  :o

Sue

[Jeannine]

You are very welcome..XX Jeannine

[SMP1704]

Duke
Even though I already have more jars than a sane person should admit to :-[ I LOVE those Weck jars - did you get them shipped? or is there a UK supplier.
I MUST KNOW ;D ;D ;D