Newbie Questions - carpets & ground elder

[patchworkperson]

Please forgive the daft questions. I'm new to this lottie madness. My previous experience of fruit & veg growing has been restricted to containers in my dinky garden.

Our newly acquired allotment has carpeted paths (very posh! ). I assume it was as a weed suppresant but as the plot has been neglected it hasn't worked very well. I want to pull it all up but what would be a cost effective (aka cheap) replacement? Our neighbours all use different means - paving slabs, wood, bricks.

Ground elder - its everywhere! Ideals to get rid of it would be welcomed. Can it be composted or would this perpetuate the problem?

Many thanks - Geri

[patchworkperson]

[goodlife]

Ugh..ground elder...one weed that I don't have very 'fond' memories of. I used to work in garden that had..and propably still has, that weed growing all over the place.
Don't compost it..it will just keep growing...you either have to take it away and bin it....or..you can burn it...or...leave it some where to dry out before composting it. Ground elder has 'wondering' roots that spread the weed very efficiently so no manner of mulching or covering other means will stop its growth. You either have to dig it out or result weed killing chemicals.

BTW...there is no daft questions! If you don't know something..you need to ask and not asking is daft

Carperts only work as long as they are kept weed and soil free..when they are soiled they turn into just other form of growing medium.
I would first lift the old carpets up to see what actually is undernearth. I could well be that there is some sort of path already there..then it is 'just' matter of scraping it 'clean'. Do you really need any replacement for the carpets? Often it is easiest to keep the paths as just soil..you can then strim/mow/hoe them if you need to keep growth down..or often just frequent foot traffic will keep them adequately tidy/worn.
Have you got any of the stuff available what your neighbours use? All of them work but are expensive to buy in quantity. I would not hurry to cover the paths as yet..consentrate getting rid of the elder from the paths..even if it means using weedkiller as you never get rid of it, it will just keep hiding under new path coverings..in mean while you can look for adverts and skips and get stock of 'freebie' slabs etc. ready for new paths surfaces.
There is so much to do when you start allotmenteering...don't try to get it all perfect in first year..tackle odd bigger job this year and concentrate growing and weeding or you spoil all the fun...those 'major' jobs will wait and you can get them done when it is not so busy time with growing....it will give you some time to plan things properly too, your ideas will grow in your head while you are digging and weeding It is better get it right in first time rather than later on thinking.."I wish I would have done differently..."
And remember...ENJOY your gardening ..even the bloody weeding

[cornykev]

As said bag the elder, the carpets are OK for short term covering but deffo not perminate, they are banned on a lot of sites, when wet they are very slippery and dangerous I have seen a lot of peeps including myself slip over on these, then there's the wind that doesn't seem to go away these days, blowing the carpet onto your crops or worse your neighbours, some carpets also leech unwanted chemicals. I have woodchippings on mine, just ask about and see if anyone local will drop these for nothing onto your plot, the best info will come from your neighbours so pick their brains. Check out skips for paving slaps or wood, always ask first though. Best of British.   

[grannyjanny]

When we visit daughter we pass an allotment site someone has delivered a huge pile of what looks like carpet of cuts. They had them on daughters plot & they were used work getting them up & disposing of.

[patchworkperson]

Thank you so much for your comments. Looking at the ground elder growth, I'm wondering if it came in with the carpet.

Had a visit from a friend who has a plot at another site & he has access to industrial quantities of wood chippings apparently. His advice was similar to yours goodlife. So I think we will concentrate on attacking the dandelions & ground elder, find & look after the crops that are already there (we know we have currants, strawberries & onions/garlic) & perhaps get a few bits planted for winter use.

[Robert_Brenchley]

It dies to order in a compost bin, but if you put it on an open heap it just takes over.

[newspud9]

My mistake was not to take sufficient care of the paths in the first 2 years which meant I was spending as much time repeat-weeding parts of the plot that I wasnt even going to sow crops on. So dig the paths areas as well as the rest of the plot to get the weeds out, then cover well -I put a layer of thick plastic sheeting beneath my carpets and its kept the weeds away as well as a welcome alternative to walking on bits of fllorboards which are a common way to do paths - and I just hoe off any weeds that look like they might be taking hold on the carpet. Good luck with it all.

[patchworkperson]

Thank you Robert & newspud9. We managed to get half of one of the larger beds tidied up& bunged in a few late crop potatoes left over from the garden. As I didn't expect to get an allotment so quickly, I planted up some potato bags in our dinky garden. Off on our holibobs for a week now so how the ground elder does reclaim too much.

Thank you all again for the advice.

[MattD]

My learning on woodchip on paths is that it still needs some kind of weed suppression underneath, no matter how thick you lay it.  After a couple of years it rots down and also becomes a good growing medium for anything drifting in, although you might get a crop of mushrooms from time to time. 

My other comment would be not to get too obsessed with weeds on paths - they are visually annoying, and some can smother small seedlings, but every bit of time you spend on them is time you aren't spending on the growing bits.   Also remember that they aren't alien life forms, they need light, water etc to thrive, and if you keep cutting the tops off with a hoe before they can put on good leaf growth, or worse get to seeding,  they will eventually get beaten - even the ones with big underground root systems. 

Perhaps I've gone too far in my tolerance for weeds - perhaps my neighbours would have different advice.........

[Pescador]

Hi Patchwork,
On a new plot infested with ground elder, I would personally use glyphosate as an inital clean-up tool.

[Unwashed]

I want to pull it all up but what would be a cost effective (aka cheap) replacement?

I've always had grass paths.  Cheap, though you do need a mower/strimmer.

Ground elder - its everywhere! Ideals to get rid of it would be welcomed. Can it be composted or would this perpetuate the problem?

If you can dig the bed and grow potatoes then you should be on top of it in a year, then you'll just have to weed out the remnants for the next few years, but it'll go eventually.  If it's in permanent beds like soft fruit or asparagus I don't think you have any option but to dig everything out - its impossible to weed out if you can't dig.  You might just be able to glyphosate it if you avoid the green leaves of what's supposed to be growing in the bed, but it's take a couple of years.

It composts fine as long as you knock all the soil off and leave it to scorch in the sun for several days before putting it onto the heap.

[French-Dream]

We took over our plot in Feb and there was carpet everywhere, it's now gone down the recycle center. When we lifted all this carpet we were amazed at how many slugs live under there.

[Digeroo]

I  had some grass paths and they were fine until I went on hols and came back to find them waist high.  I use a lot of straw, it is cheap but does rot away.  I have used cardboard but it rots quicker and then disintegrates all over the place and give a home to a myriad of slugs.

[chriscross1966]

Freecycle can be good for slabs, people are forever pulling up patios to replace them and plain grey 2-foot slabs are heavy lumps to dispose of.... it does help that I have a van and a trailer of course... but if you put up something like "Wanted: a few slabs for my allotment path" then you might well get several bites.... be prepared to pick up quickly though... lay the slabs close together, as little gap as possible, then a strimmer can go through it in a hurry to get anything coming up the crack...

chrisc

[antipodes]

@patchworkperson"So I think we will concentrate on attacking the dandelions & ground elder, find & look after the crops that are already there (we know we have currants, strawberries & onions/garlic) & perhaps get a few bits planted for winter use."

I wouldn't just get winter crops down, it is the ideal time to sow french beans and squash (courgettes, pumpkin, etc), mulch them if you can with straw, grass clippings, shredded paper etc and you will already have plenty of summer crops! Here it is too late for spuds but in the UK maybe early varieties will be fine? Don't worry too much about the weeds, dig and turn over the soil, rake off the worst and just get the spuds in!!! You will dig over much better when you harvest them. You can still grow lots of things from plug plants, tomatoes if your climate permits it, (cherry ones seem to work everywhere and they grow fast), broccoli calabrese, salads like mizuna/rocket grow quickly from seed and it's a good time to sow autumn varieties of beetroot, carrots. 
Good luck!!

[patchworkperson]

Thank you so much everyone. We've just come back from a week away & so lovely to have such great advice & tips. Just spent 3 hrs at the plot & I actually feel (& it looks) like we've really done something today even if it was just ground clearance. I was excited to see some potatoes peeping through. I had a few left over from those we've put in containers (pre allotment days) so bunged them in before our hols & they're growing!!!

Geri