Forest gardening - anyone try it?

[carlby]

Hi

I'm thinking about turning part of my new allotment over to forest gardening.

Has anyone tried it?

I have an area roughly 7 metres by 4.5 metres for this.  I am going to train fruit bushes along the border with my neighbours.  Then I fancy some dwarf fruit trees with perennials underneath.

Forest gardening appeals to me for sustainability reasons and because I could grow some unusual produce.  But mainly because I am one lazy fecker  ;D.  To be fair I also have a demanding one year old so there is that too  :)

Does anyone have any advice/comments of any nature on this idea?

Thanks in advance

[carlby]

[goodlife]

Well..I've got bit of 'wilderness' in part of my allotment. I've got old damson tree fruiting well..next to the damson run mixed hedge. Under the damson there is various perennials; hellebore, tulips, Solomon seals, daffs, mahonia and aronia..so bit of mixed bunch of flowers and berries..something for me and the bees...oh and 'odd weed' too..can't be too tidy.
Next to all those I also have raspberries...and currently I'm growing from seeds some Cheszhuan peppercorn plants..hopefully a future addition to this croup as they will make into a large shrubs.
I suppose I could say I'm doing bit of forest style growing but in smaller scale. I'm hoping to add to that some wild garlic too..once I can get hold of some plants..I've tried dry bulbs but they just won't take..so transplant some living plants maybe bit more hardier option and give them a head start.
So if anybody reading this have some growing in abundance.. ;)..PM would be kindly received.. ;) ;D
Only thing with your plant I'm bit doubtful..dwarf fruit trees won't take much competition from undergrowth. They will need the some are around them kept free from other plants for few years until they get established..and after that only low growing plants with shallow roots would make successful partnership.
For different growth layers you need to think have your tree canopy above your head and have room bellow for 'air gap'..then the next layer..and the next..

[goodlife]

Oh..and another thing..forest gardening method do need quite amount of work putting to it..it is not easy option by anymeans..particularly first few years until all the plants are getting established.
Particularly mulching is important..you need to mimic the nature and provide the leaf fall that would happen in forest. Without the ecology in the soil your border would be just like 'any garden'. Once you get the habitat suporting itself with its yearly cycle it will become easy to look after...and more canopy..less weeds..no watering..etc. But make sure your neighbours won't object as it will shade things up for them if grown close by...their usual way of growing would suffer..
I'm lucky as I've got one edge of the allotment facing my own garden so only trouble caused with lack of light is to me only..of course there is odd crumble that thing don't look like allotment should... ::) But people get used to it..and as it is not overgrown and neglected as such but intentionally planted to be 'full' and our rules don't limit what you should/should not grow, I'm well within our 'limits'.
I would recommend you to check if your rules have any limitations.. 

[Ian Pearson]

It's worth giving it a go, as it does give the chance to grow a wider range of crop plants, and provides a pleasant place to relax.
Be aware that you really, really, really, need to get rid of perennial weeds before planting up. Once they get tangled up in the roots of fruit trees, there's no getting rid of them. And make sure you have access to copious amounts of weed-free mulching material. I use partially composted wood chip from local tree surgeons.
Output per square yard is low, but I'd say output per hour of work is higher than standard annual veg, apart from in the first year or two.
There's a description and some photos of my forest garden plot here:
http://oca-testbed.blogspot.com/2010/02/free-range-oca_19.html

[carlby]

Thanks goodlife and Ian.

Oops yes I forgot about all the weeding and mulching!

Goodlife, I can only have dwarf trees as nothing higher is allowed.  Would I not even be able to plant say perpetual spinach or some herbs under them once they get established?  Would it be a no no to plant fruit bushes or rhubarb in between them until they get established?

Ian, dying to have a proper nose at your website, looks great!

I am going to plant autumn potatoes in some of the patch to clear the ground, and plant pumpkin plants through plastic in some other ground.  Then I'm going to weed the other patch and grow a green compost.

I was hoping to get the fruit trees and some other plants in in the spring.  Is this too ambitious?

I have access to woody leaf mould that the council drops off.  Would this be ok? How often should I mulch?

Sorry, lots of questions!

[goodlife]

woody leaf mould ..yes..you could use that..only trouble is that if the woody bits are bit on fresh side they will take up nitrogen from the soil for wood to be able to rot down...so good dressing of chicken pellets underneath the mulch would sort that out.

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I was hoping to get the fruit trees and some other plants in in the spring.  Is this too ambitious?
No..it should be perfectly fine.. ;D

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I am going to plant autumn potatoes Hmm..potatoes planted in autumn outdoors are not going to do anything anymore. The growing season is coming to an end and only indoor potatoes will still crop for you.

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plant pumpkin plants through plastic in some other ground...and those would go into ground next spring/summer.

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Would I not even be able to plant say perpetual spinach or some herbs under them once they get established? Yes.. ;D something low growing will do fine..one the trees are established. Some of my dwarf apples are underplanted with alpine strawberries. But you could as well let your squashes trail under the trees as long as the plants are planted away from the trees and the ground fertilized ..squashes will root along their stems..
Rhubarb will grow LARGE..and they are HUNGRY plants and will need copious amounts of water so those would be best planted away on their own spot. As for fruit bushes..currants will make huge bushes unless pruned regularly..but then the crops will suffer too. Gooseberries would suit best nearby dwarf fruit trees...they are not very deep rooted and don't generally need much food unlike currants. With good mulch you can help to keep the ground moist. Gooseberries don't need wet location and can cope with some amount shade and dryness. Just look variety that is mildew resisntant. You could plant few bushes sametime as you plant your fruit trees..just make sure you leave yourself enough room to attend to your trees and taking account the spread of the bushes..
Here is link for forest gardening site that you might find useful.. http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/index.html

[carlby]

Thanks goodlife.


I was hoping to get a crop from my pumpkins in the late autumn even though i've only sown the seeds now (I do realise this is too optimistic but as I live on the south coast I though nothing ventured...).

I read that you can plant potatoes in the ground now (special autumn ones), although the frosts might be a problem. 

I will give rhubarb it's own bed then until trees established.

[goodlife]

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I will give rhubarb it's own bed then until trees established. Just little correction..I would not plant rhubarb near dwarf fruit trees at all...not even near established ones.
Rhubarb not only grow huge and the roots go deep and will take lot of digging if trying remove them but hight of the leaves would reach half way up the hight of the trees...and the rhubarb would rob all the nutrients and water too.
It would be best if you can find some 'corner' for it that they can take over without worry of competition for other plants.

[Ian Pearson]

Agreed on rhubarb. I believe the roots can extend for over 20ft from the plant, and compete aggressively below ground.
I wouldn't worry too much about nitrogen robbery. As long as you are very carefull not to mix the woodchip mulch with the underlying soil, nitrogen will only be taken from the very surface of the soil. In fact, by repeatedly using high carbon surface mulch, you can develop a long-term fungal (rather than bacterial) breakdown of the material which is more like the natural situation in woodland. This releases nitrogen in a different chemical form than normal bacterial composting, and most perennial plants are adapted to suit this form of nitrogen. It also produces more long-lasting humus compared to bacterial composting.
You can also install some ultimate slow-release organic matter by burying or partially burying logs or branches. As they rot they hold on to lots of moisture, and I've noticed plants and trees root into them after a year or so.
If I were in your situation, I'd probably not grow anything this year now. It's just a bit on the late side.
I'd concentrate on the fundamentals - weed control, and good planning. Consider installing root barriers along  the boundaries, especially if you have 'dirty' neighbours. Perhaps mulch out the whole plot with cardboard topped with 4" of wood chip. In late winter you will be able to plant bare-root fruit trees through this.  Maybe have a nursery bed to temporarily keep any acquired plants/cuttings/ divisions that can be scrounged from fellow plot-holders in the mean time.
Final advice, (learned from experience)- make your access paths wider than you'd think. Some of mine have become impassable after a few years.

[carlby]

Thanks again.

Seems like mulch mulch mulch is very important.

What is a root barrier?  Our neighbours plot is very neat, but who knows if that would last.

I have black plastic over it all already. though have to weed out the roots underneath.  Wanted cardboard but not sure where to get a big enough supply.

Oh i really want to plant something now though....

[ipt8]

Hi
I can recomend a book for you. It deals with largef scale but is very good at what plants needed to interact with each other, such as nitrogen fixing and mineral accumulators with your production plants/shrubs/trees. I guess the trees will not apply in your case.

The book is called Creating a Forest Garden (working with nature to grow edible crops) by Martin Crawford. He also does a DVD which I will happily lend you if you return it to me when you have watched it.

You will find his web site at www.agroforestry.co.uk.

Dont be put off by the agroforestry bit, the book is usefull for all sizes of plots. We have a large garden with a tied cottage and I am slowly putting some of his ideas into practice.

[carlby]

Thanks, I have this on order from the library so hopefully I'll get it soon.