Mutant Cherokee beans?

[Garjan]

This weekend I took up my Cherokee Trail of Tears plants to let the last pods dry.
As I opened some of the pods, I was surprised to find some of them containing white, rather chunky beans instead of beautiful, slim black beans.

As I noticed that some pods were green and not reddish black, I thought that the green pods were somehow another variety. Just a mix up in my seed collection.
But I found white beans also in dark pods, and black beans in green pods.

I can't explain this phenomenon. ???

The beans I planted were from self saved seeds, but I keep a distance of approximately 8 metres between the pyramids with different varieties of french climbing beans, to prevent cross pollination as much as possible. And I never had hybrids before, so I thought I was doing something right.

What's going on?

[Garjan]

[shirlton]

I have been saving the seed for 3 years now and have had good results. The only thing I found was that some plants threw beans that were flat instead of round and these proved to be stringy. As soon as they start producing pods I weed them out and plant a spare plant in its place to take over. The amount that werent cosher was minimal so I don't worry abou it too much. I would if I started getting different coloured beans though

[Bugloss2009]

french beans cross every now and again. I have a couple of crosses that are several years on. They settle down into something stable after a few years of selection........

[Morris]

Do french beans cross with runners? 

I love cherokee beans they are my favourite, (mine are still cropping well in the soft south) but I haven't yet tried saving seed.  I grow veg in the garden in a space about a half plot, and it is really hard to get a rotation as it is.  Thinking as well about separating my beans makes my brain ache.  But I would like to get into seed saving and probably it is one of those things (like when I started my first compost heap many years ago and keeping chickens more recently) that seems much harder before you give it a go?

I also get a few that are flat and stringy.  I just pull out the strings but I suppose if I was saving seed I would want to rogue them out.

any advice?

[Bugloss2009]

"Moonlight" runner bean is a cross with a french bean, but it's a very special bean, and crossing isn't something we should worry about i think.

runners cross with other runners readily, but I still save seed

you can usually see any wrongun's with the FBs and weed them out, but i think crosses are fun.

[Morris]

So shall I just jump in and save seed from the best plants now and see what happens next year?  

And I suppose plant out more densely so I can pull out those I don't want and still get plenty of beans.

Sorry for ignorance - what is FB?

Edit - ah, think I've got it - french bean?  Doh...

[shirlton]

FB French Beans ;D

[macmac]

I sowed some saved butter beans this year.Last year they were fine this year some are black  :My french were all sorts of things I think perhaps beans are a little promiscuous

[Garjan]

Thanks for all the replies!
I go with promiscuity: I like the idea of beans-behaving-badly   :D

I noticed some flat beans as well. Just thought it had to do with insufficient pollination and/or development, so I didn't give it a thought.

As for pulling up the plants that are different: it is impossible to distinguish between the plants with white and black seeds. Both can be in black pods and in green pods. That's what's puzzeling me.
I'm not bothered with the difference in colour. I reckon I need to buy new seeds to keep the variety 'pure'.
The idea of Bugloss is also appealing: to plant the mutants and to finally come up with a variety that performs well under the specific conditions of my plot. A combination of Mendel and Darwin could be quite a boost for the ego.

Greetings,
Garjan

[Bugloss2009]

no- don't get rid of rogue plants. Leave them be, and use them. Just don't use any seeds for next year that look odd (unless you want to)

You can't always tell - I saved some cannellini seeds that looked fine, and next year they produced purple pods with tiny black seeds........

[Vinlander]

First try the all the beans for flavour - don't throw out the type that taste best!

That's a given - but if you plant all the types/'landraces' separately next year you may be able to decide which is earliest, longest/highest yielding etc.

You decide if a new variety is worth growing on for the future.

However I must put in a word for ones with strongly coloured pods - they must be easier to find amongst the foliage - could save you a lot of trouble if you are picking for green beans - getting every one before maturity means more green beans over a longer season (apart from simply making picking quicker).

Cheers.

PS. since CTOT aren't ideal for picking green (go from short & thin straight to maturity) you might find one of the offspring is better.

[Jeannine]

French don't cross with runners XX Jeannine