Sweetcorn varieties grown next to each other - what happens??

[kt.]

I know most packets say do not grow next to another variety of sweetcorn but why is this exactly?  What happens if you do? 

Can different varieties be planted side by side or do they really need a minimum distance between each?
Is it to do with affecting flavour? (if that is all it is then I can live with that)
Do you get less yields?
Does it fail to produce cobs?
Or is it just a load of cobblers lies?
Or something else?

Reason I ask is because next year I want to grow at least two varieties on my plot to spread my harvest from August to November prior to having to freeze cobs. 

[kt.]

[chriscross1966]

From memory you can't grow the enhanced sweetness varieties next to "standard" ones without it badlyl affecting the enhanced ones. If you grow old fashioned varieties then you should be OK.... with some fiddling you should be able to get Golden Bantam to cover most of that period if you polytunnel the early sowing, or grow Swift and resow....

chrisc

[grannyjanny]

Chris have you tried Golden Bantam please. I only bought it because we have 4 buff bantams ;D. Planting it with Ashworth & Lark. Planted Earlibird & minipop at daughters plot.

[earlypea]

I think it's because they are wind pollinated (that's why they say plant in a block not a row).  

With two varieties the pollen from one can be blown onto the other and you'd get a mix, but that's only if they're flowering at the same time.  With different varieties, for different cropping dates they probably wouldn't be.

[Jeannine]

KT, the reason is because breeders have been "improving" corn for decades.Going back to the beginning we had just the open pollinated corns,not so sweet and needed cooking as soon as picked because the sugar turned to starch almost immediately.Referred to as OPs ,then came the hybrids, two types bred together for various reasons,eg early maturity, colour, sweetness etc,these are now referred to as the normals, breeders however kept going, they then produced ones which held their sweetness better after picking(about 3 days) these were referred to to as sugar enhanced corns  abbreviated to se..still breeders continued and came up with the Supersweets, these had a gene bred in that made them much sweeter than all the others  and the shelf life is about 1 week,referred to as SH because the gene causes the seed to be shrunken. The downside to these is that gene!! If corn with the the shrunken gene is pollinted  with any other corn  that is nearby and vica versa both  corns become starchy so the present years crop is useless. Breeders are still improving corn so one has to keep up if to be sure. So briefly if you grow a supersweet kind it has to be isolated from all other corns either by distance or by maturity dates, trouble is with UK seed sellers they don't always put maturity dates on the packets.

You can grow normal hybrids and sugar enhanced side by side,but not  mix the supersweets  with anything but another supersweet type.

Further, the old dent/flour corns which include popcorns should be kept separate from the hybrids and sugar enhance too. Baby corn is OK whatever it is as the cobs are picked before pollinated, but if one slips up and leaves them, they will pollinate  with other corns as above, so a supersweet baby corn should be separated etc.

I have built up a database on corns for years so may of them which are not named as SE or SH I can identify before sowing and do this all the time for people.

So you CAN  grow the sugar enhanced corns next to the normal or standard types  which in corn are the hybrids. The supersweet types need pollinating from everything but themselves

Let me know if you need any further help. I can help you figure out what will safely be able to be grown next year if you let me know ehat type of corns you like..eg, white, gold, biclour  etc.

I will add it is not just the taste which is affected it is the texture as well, so crossed they are not good and I doubt you would be happy with them.It is like eating corn that is weeks old, tough and chewy with no sweetness at all.

XX Jeannine

[kt.]

Sweetcorn : Extra Tender & Sweet F1   is my early option
Sweetcorn : Conquerer F1 Hybrid (Supersweet) is my later option

http://search.thompson-morgan.com/search?p=Q&srid=S8%2d2&lbc=thompson%2dmorgan&ts=custom&w=sweetcorn&uid=554629281&method=and&isort=score&view=grid&srt=0

My alternative later option is:
http://www.kingsseeds.com/kolist/1/5/14709.htm

[Jeannine]

I have a problem with the descriptions that Thompson and Morgans sometimes use for many of their veggies especially corn, for one thing they don't always say what type it is, they don't give maturity dates and often they don't even give wether early, mid season or late. On some varieties they say   "does not need isolation from other corns",this is right if you are growing normal hybrids  but if you are growing a supersweet, it needs isolation from the others which is misleading. The other problem I have with them is that they describe some varieties differently on different countries site eg  the Canadian Thompson and Morgan site describes  Extra Tender and Sweet  as a supersweet . They seem to get sole ownership of many varieties which means little info is available anyway, even the US uni sites don't always have info on T&M seeds.

  Personally I would not grow Extra Early Tender and Sweet for the reasons above, there are many good early corns that don't have the confusion surrounding them, however if you really want this one and if it is an early as  the vague description hints it may be,  it could be followed by Tuxedo, which although it is a supersweet it is also a late  maturing one. I would not mix Extra Tender and Sweet with Conqueror unless Thompson and Morgan were prepared to give you accurate  maturity dates on both.To separate by harvest dates you need 15 days.

Personally if I was growing two types  that  might need isolation I  would go for a true early corn with an accurate description,one that you can eat as soon as possible then follow it with a late.. that way it wouldn't matter so much what type they were unless your neighbours are growing corn.You would get a longer harvest too.

Many of the US sites will give you info on line about types, maturity dates and isolation etc, then you can find a UK source for the seeds, Seeds by Size sells many of them.  Johnnyseeds.com is an excellent site for info.

If you need help with which earlies etc let me know.

XX Jeannine

[goodlife]

Ok..Jeannine..I've got another one for you....I grow unknown popcorn variety..Blue Hopi and Seville f1 (mid-season supersweet)...what are my chances to save seed from the first two varieties and get them true to type..
I'm growing them in lotty about 15-20m apart..hedges, GH..etc..between and was going to cage them with canes and fleece once tassels are going to come out...and I know that there is nobody else growing sweetcorn within 100m or more and again each lottie is surrounded by 6-8ft  hedges..fruit trees etc..so not a open site as such...

[goodlife]

Just noticed that Seville's male bits are coming out :o..and other two nowhere near that far yet..so there is chance that it has well passed polination before the others start..
..but those other two are that I was hoping to save seeds from...

[Jeannine]

Your Seville supersweet is a mid to late season, should ripen August to September.
Blue Hopi is a dent corn primarily grown for making  flour from, it can be eaten fresh but it needs to be eaten very quickly after picking and only as the milk runs, after that it will be too starchy. Your  Blue Hopi which is  a late  OP corn gives   80-100 days, this is cover two things  a) eating fresh at 80 days which is a mid early or leaving it to full maturity  at 100 days by which time it will be drying .Pollination times will be the same though however you use it. You can use it for flour, it grinds easily.

The Seville  can't do too much to your Hopi as it is not a sweet,tender  corn to start with and is already starchy but  your Hopi can change your Seville. The time difference you need is 15 days , you should be OK at that, but keep an eye on it.

Re the seeds, if you can keep them apart you can keep seeds from the Hopi but not from the Seville as it is a hybrid and wouldn't come true,personally  I wouldn't waste a season growing an iffy seed.

Your second post suggests there is a third corn, I missed that and based my advice on the two named ones,can you describe  the third one to me.. it might change what I have already said though.

XX Jeannine

[goodlife]

Ok...seville was only for eating anyway so seed is not probs..Hopi would like to save..and the third is some unknow variety of popcorn maize...
I took some seed from popcorn packet and they did germinate.. ::)..so just for fun I put it ground and they are growing..so now I want my own grown popcorn.. ;D..just for popping..not for actual seed saving as such..
so what you think...would the fleece barrier work if it would be pollinating same time with hopi?..Now those two are about 20 metres apart with hedges etc..barriers between..possible..?

[Jeannine]

25 feet for small garden amounts of corn is the official footage.Or 15days. You can pop your Hopi by the way. XX Jeannine

[Karen Atkinson]

Oh, I didn't know you couldn't dry and then pop your own 'sweetcorn' (am a relative newbie). I'd be really interested in hearing how the un-named popcorn does then #10. Was it just dried corn that you get in a packet from the shop? Keep posting!

[goodlife]

. You can pop your Hopi by the way. XX Jeannine

Yes I was told so and I tried, but none of them did pop though ???...when I did read about it in web.. it says flourmaize?..and those that it tried to pop (I still ate them.. ;D ::)) were not hard 'filling poppers' like unpopped popcorn usually is... ???
They were nice and crunchy..easily chewed...tasted ok though.. ;D

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Was it just dried corn that you get in a packet from the shop
yes...shop bought popping corn....I think it was either from Holland and Barrett or Julian Graves shop..they were just bag end..plenty out of date..but I tried anyway.. ::) I soaked handfull of them in water in propagator overnight..and then put them on dish on damp kithen towel..still in propagator..and few days later they started to germinate. I was hoping to get just few out of the hole lot...but majority did germinate :o so now I've got 18 of them growing and neighbour has some too ;D...who knows what comes out..it's just a bit of fun