self managment, enhanced management or stay the same

[gwynleg]

These are the choices our council is currently asking us to vote on. Its an allotment site with nearly 300 lotties. Has been quite run down really, although there is supposedly a waiting list, lots of the plots are very weedy indeed. There is a shop run by society volunteers which would continue whatever. The council say that if we had enhanced management this would increase the rent two fold (from £11 for 5 poles to about £33 for the same), they would provide a toilet for the first two options.

I would love to get some views on this from others who have been through a similar process. Thanks

[gwynleg]

[Trevor_D]

I'm not sure what the various kinds of "management" entail - we're not a Council site, but totally independent. (We rent the land from the local Church charity.)

But comparing our site with some of the Council ones in our area, we have total control over the budget and the priorities, so - always providing you can get enough people who want to be on the Committee - it's a far better option than having to wait on the Council to do things. (And if they're throwing in free loos as well, that's a few thousand pounds saved for starters.)

If you've got the support, become as independent as they'll let you.

[Robert_Brenchley]

You don't specify what the different alternatives get you, only the cost. If you get Council support with the self-management option, I'd suggest going for that. If it means you're left high and dry with nothing, maybe not. Don't accept anything which would entail the Association taking responsibility for evicting people.

[Trevor_D]

Robert, I would have thought that control over the hiring and firing part would be an advantage. Getting rid of members who refuse to cultivate isn't the most pleasant job, but from what people say on A4A it's one where some Councils move very slowly and where the members feel most frustrated at the lack of action.

[Robert_Brenchley]

You need cooperation from the Coucil, but what happens when the committee gets control, then it gets taken over by some little tin Hitler who wants to throw anyone they have a minor dispute with off the site? We've been there, believe me, and it's lucky they didn't have the power!

[Unwashed]

Robert, you get tin-pot dictators in the council system too.  Isn't a solution to have an appeals panel and require important decisions to be made at a general meeting?

[saddad]

Having just "walked away" I'm saying nothing...  ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

Robert, you get tin-pot dictators in the council system too.  Isn't a solution to have an appeals panel and require important decisions to be made at a general meeting?

That then raises the question of who sits on the panel, and what you do when everyone's so cowed by some bully that the General Meeting rubber stamps whatever they say. Believe me, I've seen it.

[Unwashed]

Robert, I wish it were otherwise, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you're right.  At the end of the day people get the democracy they deserve.

[Sinbad7]

But if it's a democracy and the members chose your committee and apart from Chair, Sec, Treasurer you have a few extra members, the unreasonable usually don't get their own way, well only once they did  at our site and the members saw for themselves it didn't work so at the next AGM it was dropped.

Many a time I think I have a great idea and it doesn't get voted for, but that's the way it goes, so long as you try to run a very open committee and always remember the committee are only their to represent what the members want you can't go wrong............................ well not too often.

We let our own plots and give tenants notice to quit after the appropriate letters and telephone calls have been sent/made.  Never want to part on bad terms and I always say you know where we are if you feel you get more time and want another allotment.

Sinbad

[Robert_Brenchley]

I've been involved in a string of cases where churches and community organisations have been taken over by individuals and cliques who just wanted to go on stupid power trips at everyone else's expense. The problem is, you can't always find people to go on committees and do jobs, so it's very hard to say no, or to stop and ask questions about peoples' motivation.

[Chrispy]

I have to agree with Robert, having been in a committee myself, though not for an allotment association.

Committee members do not `get voted on` simply because you don't get enough people to stand to actually have a vote.

Also, when you do get a `tin-pot dictator` the friction caused usually results in one of the hard working members resigning.
Having said that, I would recommend self management, the benefits outway the problems you may have, but the first thing to do is get procedures and a constitution in place.
It is all very nice to keep things informal, which works well when things are going fine, but it is the informality that allows one person to manipulate the rest of the members.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Problem is, the dictator type usually know that if they go on causing problems for long enough other people are going to walk away and leave them in charge! Right now I'm in a situation - not on the allotments - where people took over that way, then got deposed. Ever since, they've been hassling away trying to get rid of people and rebuild their little empire. They're now sending out libellous letters, and I'm the one that has to deal with it!

[macmac]

Robert, I would have thought that control over the hiring and firing part would be an advantage. Getting rid of members who refuse to cultivate isn't the most pleasant job, but from what people say on A4A it's one where some Councils move very slowly and where the members feel most frustrated at the lack of action.

We went self managed a few years ago and were sold the idea on your points Trevor.The result however is nothings changed Grrr :(