Just a thought about organic growing

[mrf94]

I followed a thread in Recipes about rhubarb,

i know some people on here are organic growers and wont spray their crops with chemicals etc, But use things like garlic , and rhubarb leaves.

My point is the link i followed in the thread was very explicit in telling you that rhubarb leaves and roots are poison,   Yet are sprayed on edible crops.

Comments invited.

mrf94

[mrf94]

[Busby]

Everything sprayed onto edible crops is poison - otherwise there would be no point.

[mrf94]

So garlic is poison to humans?


mrf94

[bupster]

It's poisonous to bugs. I think you're getting confused about what's organic - I wouldn't eat a plate of horse manure either, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't put it on my crops.

[Ant]

rhubarb leaves are poisonous.

But you aren't chucking full leaves on your veg. If you let them steep in water for a while you end up with a foul smelling brew (which is probably still poisonous to us) that when sprayed on cabbages deters the cabbage white because of the overpowering scent masking that of cabbages.

I suppose the same could be said about garlic. It's not necessarily poisonous to bugs, but the smell might mask the things they are after.

Think planting onions or marigolds with your carrots to deter carrot fly.  :)

[davyw1]

Then why not just use Lemon Zeast washing up liquid

[Busby]

Yes, garlic is poison not only for the bugs on edible crops but also for humans - it will make you ill or maybe kill you if you eat more than the body can assimilate, which is what the bugs do.

I'm pretty sure it would be time to actually define 'organic' too. The one that gets me is 'organic milk', how can anything that has been heated to 70 degrees centigrade be organic. Almost as bad as organic corn flakes.

We all know that there are vegetables we can call organic without any great discussion; all those we just put into the ground and wait for: carrots; onions; leeks; kohl rabi; lettuce - come to mind. These only need a little hoeing and weeding, no pesticides needed. But farming cabbages, tomatoes, apples, potatoes and the rest is impossible under normal circumstances without a form of chemical pesticide, no matter how 'weak',  otherwise we'd have scurvy apples, smelly tomatoes and cabbages with club root, whilst rainy summers would leave us with stinking and foul potatoes.

[Ant]

I'm pretty sure it would be time to actually define 'organic' too. The one that gets me is 'organic milk', how can anything that has been heated to 70 degrees centigrade be organic. Almost as bad as organic corn flakes.

Ah, but surely thats just the process of making it safer for our consumption, sure you don't have to pasteurise it, but if you didn't it wouldn't exactly last long on the shelves/milkfloat?

Organic to me means no chemicals have been used... or in the case of livestock, they are fairly well looked after ie: no battery chickens or cows with udders like beach balls.  :)

[bupster]

Organic is not the same as pure or natural. Much of what we grow and consume is treated in some way - this doesn't mean it can't be done organically. Definitions are important.

Organic: Of, marked by, or involving the use of fertilizers or pesticides that are strictly of animal or vegetable origin. Raised or conducted without the use of drugs, hormones, or synthetic chemicals.

Note - organic does NOT mean that no fertilisers or pesticides are used, but that they're not synthetic. So organic milk is exactly what it says it is. If you want unpasteurised, go buy that.

[froglets]

Organic milk comes from herds which are not so intensively "farmed" for milk & as a consequence, are not pumped full of antibiotics and the like to keep them healthy.  I have a better tolerance for organic milk than non organic, although I suspect not all organic mik is teh same - I can handle Waitrose & Sainsbury's, not Asda & I'm not convinced about Tesco.

[bupster]

PS sorry for sounding grouchy  :)

[Kea]

Water can kill you if you have too much of it......does that make it a poison.

Personally I avoid organic bread because it is more likely to be contaminated with ergot which I have had a serious reaction to in the past and i'm told having it again might stop my heart. So I prefer my grains plastered with fungicides during growth.

[Plot69]

So garlic is poison to humans?

It is if you sleep in a coffin and only come out at night.

[mrf94]

So, We cant use chemicals that are designed "not to kill us",

But we can use organic ones that are designed to kill us.

mrf94

[aromatic]

 :-\ Good point raised here mrf94... found this article on rhubarb.. I have included the link....

www.plantea.com/rhubarb.htm

lots to read and when you finally get to the bottom of the page, it tells you how it makes a great spray for aphid's, but should NOT be sprayed on edible crops!!!
So although an organic method, should be treated with caution!!!

[Robert_Brenchley]

Rhubarb leaves contain oxalic acid, which should be treated with caution, but you do need to take a fair bit to kill yourself. Small quantities in sorrel, for instance, do no harm that anyone knows of. It's very soluble in water, so as long as the veg are washed, they'd be OK to eat. I think they're being overcautious.

[froglets]

So, We cant use chemicals that are designed "not to kill us",

But we can use organic ones that are designed to kill us.

mrf94

Too true MRF94.  When we upgraded our climbing hut in the wilds of Snowdonia to put in a loo & shower, we had to put in a UV system to "purify" the water supply, which is the stream running down the hill outside.  The same stream supplies water to the kitchen ( & has done for 60-odd years) but as that was already in place, it was not subject to building regs so is still a feed straight off the hillside.  Now we are flushing the loo with "cleaner" water than we drink!!! 

[Robert_Brenchley]

Which hut is that?

[froglets]

Pinnacle Club hut at Cwm Dyli.