Grape vines

[gerbera]

I have 2 grape vines...bought earlier this year, and planted in very large pots. The varieties are Sauvignon Blanc (white) and Cabernet Sauvignon (red)....(not a wino...well not too much....honest guv!)

Well, they both put on new growth...the white more so......however, despite the white now romping away, all the new growth on the red has started to die back....it seems to be wilting, even though it has had the same amount of water (not drenched...not dry).

What is vexing the red grape vine? How can I revive it? Help needed!

Carys

[gerbera]

[weedgrower]

it may just need a d**n good feed. a few months ago i aquired a dead fox and buried it next to my vine. i have never known my vine grow so much and so quick. maybe its just the placebo effect but i have been told by a few people that vines do like a bit of blood so i believe it has done the trick. good luck

[jennym]

Not sure what the problem could be. Maybe it dried out earlier in the year, and you are only just seeing the signs, or maybe it got a little waterlogged, or maybe you have vine weevil grubs in the pot.
To be honest I don't think pots are the best way to grow grape vines. They do seem to do better in the soil, and it's hard to supply the correct amount of water they need. However saying that, I know people do grow them in pots. Usually, they are moved into a larger pot in stages, starting in a small pot and moving up a size as the plant grows. They don't like very acid soil either I think.

[cleo]

It does sound like there is something in the pot-ants are notorious for invading pot grown things

[timmyc]

is it all the new growth on the red or just the new growth near the base? I have one each of these same two vines - both growing in largish pots and both have small ball bearing sized grapes on now - you can overwater Cabernet quite easily - it grows well in well drained soils with a little water every now and then - think that Bordeaux is a lot hotter and dryer than here - plus the soil they grow it in is both fairly infertile and well drained (they put the vines under some stress to get them working harder to produce less grapes but of a better quality and ripeness)
The lower growth of Cabernet will often die back - to put energy into the higher leaves.

How are you training them? And is this the first year from a small stick with roots? My advice is not to worry too much this year if it's  a first year - over winter take out all growth - except 3 main stems and train these - then next year new growth sprouts from these stems to produce grapes much more easily!

[shirlthegirl43]

I have the same two vines, both in the first year and planted as sticks with roots in large-ish pots.  Both seem to be very happy at the moment.

When do I cut off this years growth and do I cut it right back so that I still have a stick with roots?  The aim is to put them in the ground at some point when there is a suitable place for them (garden undergoing much needed work) but getting very confused as to where is a good place.  It seems that the more I read, the more confused I get.  Is there a simple rule please?  It is all very well these sites telling you to cut back a leader to such and such but what is a leader? :-[ ???

Thanks for any help!!!

Also, is there a way I can save this thread so that I can read it again later or do I just have to search through again?

happy gardening
Shirley

[Belinda]

Hi Shirl,

Whilst looking at this thread add it to your favourites (also known as bookmarking).

If you're using internet explorer (quite likely - boo hiss Microsoft), your top menu should be File, Edit, View, Favourites, Tools, Help. Click on Favourites then Add to favourites, you can create a folder at this stage or go back later when you have a few more bookmarks and Organise favourites.

Then when you want to go back to a saved bookmark you simply click on Favourites and you will see below the Add and Organise options either folders you have created or the straight links to the pages you have bookmarked.

Hope I haven't just tried to 'teach Gran how to suck eggs', just trying to help.

[shirlthegirl43]

LOL - didn't think to do that!!!  However, I have a newer version of Outlook - no file edit etc at the top.  Was using it for a few days and had to yell at OH 'how the heck do I get my favourites'  he showed me a rather big star which then drops down to show all my faves!!!  Gee, technology is wunnerful!

Thanks Belinda - now just got to find out how to sort my vines! :D ;D

[jennym]

A leader is a single main stem. The idea is that it is a permanent stem, with smaller sideshoots coming from it. This would be a cordon form. So, to start with:
In summer, choose a good strongish looking stem and identify it by tying a piece of coloured string loosely round it. Let it get as long as you decide, you will have to give it some support, tie it to this support as it grows. Cut it just above a bud when it's the height you want (so the bud stays on the stem).
The laterals, which are side branches coming off from it, count about 5 buds and trim back to about 3 cm in front of a bud (so the bud stays on the stem) and as they re-grow, keep trimming back to this. Any smaller shoots that come from these, cut back to leave just 2 leaves remaining.
In winter, (about December or Jan)look at the laterals, count about 2 or 3 buds and cut back to about 3 cm in front of a bud (so the bud stays on the stem). You end up with the leader, basically a long woody looking stem, and little stubby bits of lateral branches sticking out from it. If the leader needs reducing again cut it just above a bud to the height you want (so the bud stays on the stem).
The next summer, this time mark the lateral branches (with coloured string) which have maybe flowered and started to produce grapes. On these flowering laterals, trim to 2 leaves past the point at which they flowered. Then, cut flowers off, don't let it produce fruit. The ones that haven't flowered, cut back to 5 buds.
The following winter, repeat what you did before. The stubby side stems will look stubbier, and the main stem, the leader, will have thickened up a bit.
The next summer, follow the same rules again, but let just one or two bunches of grapes develop. The next winter, follow the same rules. The next summer, you can allow more fruit to develop, but by this time you will probably be able to read up more on the maintaining of the vine with some experience.
Good luck!

You could cut and paste the thread into a word document, or copy the link into a word document.

[shirlthegirl43]

Gee, that is brilliant, thanks ever so much!!

I just went out to have a look at them.  One has two growing shoots which are a sort of 'Y' shape from the stick with roots.  Is it okay to leave them both as leaders and then train to a sort of 'fan' from there?  The other one has quite bushy growth so I will have a sort out and see which I need to cut off.

Never realised they would be such work - thought I could just plant and enjoy!!  Will be well worth it if I get some grapes some day!  I actually only bought them since they were reduced to about a pound and on a buy one get one free so I had the two for a quid!! 

As they are both still pretty small, can I leave the leaders to grow for another summer before I stop them?  Don't really want a grape vine 2' high - I would have a bad back looking after them!

Thank you again.

[jennym]

The answers are yes, and yes.
The amount of work you do is necessary if you wnat a productive fruiting plant - but if you want it for decorative purposes, and maybe the leaves and stems to look good and lush you can just leave it alone, they do look nice.
The other thing I would say is the pots need to be about 45 cm diameter if you want to keep them in them.
:)

[shirlthegirl43]

Thanks again.  Advice now copied and pasted to Word (another brilliant suggestion) ready for when I need to start with the snips!!

Happy gardening
Shirley