Topic: Ponds on allotment sites

[busy_lizzie]

Some controversy has arisen on our site, of which I would really appreciate input.
I have a small pond on my plot because I am organic and it encourages frogs etc, and so far the ponds installed on our site have been similar ponds, there for eco reasons. In the last six months on our site we have seen a huge increase in large ponds that seem to be there mainly as ornaments which have fish in them. The dilemma for the committee arises because of the increased numbers of families with children coming onto the site and how do we grade the safety risk. We lease the land from the council and we have been told we have a duty of care to our plotholders and we have to have health and safety monitoring. It was thought we could put a limit on the size of a pond, but then that would lead to more work and decisions for the committee to make and believe me our work load is huge now.  So it was decided to put a note on the gate to ask plotholders not to install any more ponds because of health and safety reasons, which as you can imagine hasn't gone down well.  Have any of the sites on here had to make similar decisions, (which I am still not comfortable with), or got a pond policy going? I would love to know what is happening on other sites. Thanks if you can help. busy_lizzie ???

[Unwashed]

If the pond, together with all of the not-fruit-and-veg stuff, is taking up a significant part of the plot - and I'd suggest something like more than 30% - then you have a problem because the allotments acts require that the plot is used mainly for growing fruit and veg. That doesn't mean the pond is the problem, but you might chose to tell your tenant to cultivate more fruit and veg and leave it to her to decide which of her shed, lawn, pond, chicken run, rockery, flower bed, etc has to be reduced.  Apparently it can weaken the statutory protection of the site if it's use is not substantially what the allotments acts expect, so it's sound management to enforce this requirement.

But there's nothing wrong with having a pond per se, ponds have a long and honourable tradition on allotments, and it really isn't any business of the committee whether the tenant is keeping fish or not.  Of course, the committee might possibly take the view that filling in a pond when a tenant moves on is a nuisance so there is an argument for limiting the size of ponds, or certainly limiting their construction to nothing more than a liner and no hard landscaping, but that totally depends on the character and tradition of your site.

The management committee as occupiers of the site have under the 1984 Occupiers Liability Act a duty of care  to everyone who might come on to the site, whether legitimately or not, but the tenants also have the same duty of care for people who come on to their plots.  Essentially then, if someone falls into a pond and drowns the responsibility is probably the tenants, and not the committee's.  Banning ponds for health and safety is a really, really bad thing to do without consultation and without it falling out as a consequence of a structured risk assessment.  And banning new ponds but doing nothing to make the existing ones safe is just perverse.  It's the kind of action that gives health and safety a bad reputation.

Do you have a health and safety management plan for the common areas that are your responsibility?  Have you done a risk assessment?  If you have open water troughs then your risk assessment should have picked them up as a bigger drowning hazard and you'll probably want to put lids on them.  I suggest the best thing to do is take the notice down and appologise for being daft, then do a bit of research and see how much of a hazard ponds on allotments are.  Then if you have outstanding concerns think about requiring ponds to be fenced - mine is.

[busy_lizzie]

That is such a good reply. You sound full of commonsense. Want to join our committee? Will take on board all you have said and take some ammunition along to the committee meeting when we get together to talk about it. Thanks, busy_lizzie

[Robert_Brenchley]

If small kids are coming onto the site, then the people responsible for them should be ensuring that they keep off other people's plots.

[gwynleg]

Yes I agree with robert. I have a small pond for the same reasons and was quite nervous at first (of being found out as I hadnt asked, or of children being unsafe). Now I just tell any neighbours with kids about the ond. Most say - dont worry they shouldnt go on other plots anyway.

I think that allotments can be a bit hazardous for children anyway (a while back a father was allowing his kids to run over my plot while we were talking - one child fell - really narrowly missing impaling his face on a stick) so I dont think ponds are the only issue

[Unwashed]

Whether or not children should be supervised on the allotment has nothing to do with the OP's question.  As tenant you owe a duty of care to anyone who goes onto your plot, and that includes snot-nosed rug-rats that have crawled through the hedge at night to mank about with your stuff.  So if they poke their eye out on a cane, or smack their face on an up-turned rake, or drown in your pond, you are liable.  That your site does not allow children and they were trespassing doesn't change that.  The OP's question is to what degree are the management committee also liable for the tenant's negliagence.

[elvis2003]

we hummed and hawed about getting a pond,and in the end have used a double sized belfast sink as one,and have filled it with so many plants,rocks and things that it would be nigh on impossible to drown in it.

[shirlton]

We have a wildlife pond on our site. It is in the area where the schools garden and the bees will soon be. It is fenced off and is completely on its own.We have large notices saying that children should be supervised at all times within this are by an adult.This is on the gated entrance so can be clearly seen. It has been there for 2 years now and we have had no problems until this Saturday when a man went into the area with his 3 children. He sat himself down on a bench while his children were paddling in the pond. Being opposite the area I shouted over to him about the danger of letting the children paddle as the pond is quite deep in the middle. He said "Ok thanks for telling me", and just let them get on with their paddling. Kids will be kids we all know that but it is the adults responsibility to prevent accidents happening. Thank goodness they went after about 10 mins. We have now had to put an extra large notice asking parents not to let their children paddle in the pond as it is a wildlife area and should be respected.