Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: allaboutliverpool on April 11, 2008, 21:06:36
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So Joe wants to feed his family. It looks as if it will be couch grass and Mares tail.
I do not think much of his impatience and hope that viewers ignore his methods.
A big thumbs down ???
http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments4_digging_the_plot.html
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I hope Monty waived his fee because he was hardly in it although maybe that isn't such a bad thing.
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i actualy though it was pretty good because hes making all the same mistakes people just starting seam to make on our site. And from this over the year they will learn together.
Gardeners world does not seam to be aimed at people who have been gardening for flowers and veg for a while and it might have been better if all three presenters had got allotments and shown a range of methods but that would have taken 30 min and they would not devote that much of there time to this would they?
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they would not devote that much of there time to this would they?
They are not capable of doing an allotment. I doubt if they would even know where to start.
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I agree Cambourne, but worry that everyone with a new allotment is going to rush out and hire a rotovator.
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Bring back Titchmarsh, he'd know what to do!
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Even with the machine taking the top level off - do you believe he did all that in one day?!
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It exhausted me, watching that. In one day he found a plot, got a man with machine to skim the top, dug it over, found the pallets etc (wasn't that conveninent???), built a shed, my goodness, and all I can manage is to build and fill a couple of raised beds.
Makes it look easy, doesn't it - It's no wonder so many people want allotments, if taht's all it takes.
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I have a suspicion that the machine did do that, and that he does not have a secret army helping him otherwise he would have done better.
When I dug the first part of my plot by day two it was clear of perennial weeds and you can see in the photo that several hours work was about 10 feet by 5 feet.
The whole plot took several months.
http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments4_digging_the_plot.html
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hang on your forgetting about the 20 people behind the camera!!
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I know its not long since dad passed away, but it chuckles me that he used to call Monty Don "Bigfoot"!! he always thought he was a messy, clumsy gardener!!!
i can still see him rolling his eyes and shaking his head at him. :)
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Makes it look easy, doesn't it - It's no wonder so many people want allotments, if taht's all it takes.
And it's the same reason so many give them up again after a few weeks. In the 13 months I've had my plot I've seen quite a few new plot holders take over a new plot, dig for a day or two and then never return. One plot just at the back of mine is on it's third owner since I've been there.
And still they keep coming...
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Hold on and fair do's - at least they are featuring MORE allotment and veg growing now :)
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Hold on and fair do's - at least they are featuring MORE allotment and veg growing now :)
I agree with that - I thought the actual time devoted to this was excellent. I was expecting a 10 minute slot.
I was muttering all the way through it though. From "lucky beggars getting someone to clear the undergrowth for nowt", to "Oh gawd, look at all those weed roots chopped up all over the place". And why does he think he knows more than the old stagers? Just cos they've been doing it for years doesn't mean he can't come and show them a thing or two, eh? ;)
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of his methods, they really did make it look all too easy. What we would all give for use of a big transit van, and a very serendipitous donation of expensive timber, eh?
Still, good on them for giving this much of the programme over to it.
And I do like the pretty shaped beds. Even if they're not going to be the most practical things ever. :)
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I still think it's an April fool joke and next week he'll tell us that this is not how to start an allotment ::)
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I think it was a lot more realistic than a lot of veg growing programmes we see.
It did show you that it is not easy getting a plot close to home
It showed that you are likely to get an overgrown plot.
I think it was right to rotate.I used to say it was wrong but after seeing rotovated plots I have changed my mind.
Yes it was a lottie persons dream to have the bark,the muck the pallets the help,the shed all at hand but they are making a TV programme and It cant really be shown in real time can it.
I liked him daring to be different with his diamond shaped beds.
Yes he will find they are not ideal but so what.He is having fun with his lottie and to me that is what it is all about.
I am looking forward to seeing how he gets on with it all. :)
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I am waiting for the couch and marestail to grow through the pallet base of the shed - or the wind to knock it down ::)
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I have to agree with you Betula about the rotovation. We've got a 10 pole (or maybe a bit bigger) plot which looks pretty much like his did at the beginning (you can see it if you zoom in on my profile), and I have to admit the idea of digging it all by hand is very daunting. I can see how people would just give up and go home forever after doing about a quarter of it.
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The thing is by rotovating he chopped the couch grass and marestail into many more pieces; he'd already said this, his words were something like "where you had one weed you now have ten" - and yet he still went ahead and did it. Unbelievable. Act in haste, repent at leisure. :'(
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Yes but you are always pulling weeds anyway.
Over the years you gradually dig most of it away. :)
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I didn't see the programme but wish I had.
One year, many years ago now, when one of my plots was in a terrible state with bindweed, grass etc. I rotovated it in May and planted the whole plot up, it was brilliant my crops were great so much so I won first prize in the borough for best plot. So I do think they have their place on allotments but saying that I never used a rotovator again as I repented at my leisure and feel for sure I am still taking the bindweed out from that season.
But if you take over a new plot this time of year I would say go for it as it is very satisfying to see what you can do in your first year and then you have the coming winter to start the long hard dig. The secret to it is to plant it all up, so you have to do it at the right time.
Sinbad
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Sinbad you can watch it on the BBC I player.
Sorry I do not know how to put in the link
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Thanks betula, will do, I have the link saved on my favourites.
Sinbad
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I watched it and smiled seeing him make the same mistakes, lets be honest, most of us have made. Very lucky have the council deliver free compost and bark chippings. Wish our local council were as generous. His shed looks in similar shape to mine, but I did get the old man to make my strong and weather proof. I love hs diamonds and triangles and say nuts to the old timers who poo pooed his efforts. When I first took on my lotties, all the old boys stood together watching me work, doing things my way, laughing and taking the pee, and look at me now, the old boys come and ask me for my advice and I am the one winning first prizes at the shows. Where is it written that allotments have to be in straight lines and right angles? Yup, he was dead lucky having it scraped clean and of course bottomless pits of money so he can hire the rotovator just like that and having Cleve West as a chum who has had an allotment for donkies so is a mind of information. I enjoyed it a darn site more than Carol doing her thing with the folks in Devon.
Off my soap box now.
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I enjoyed the program, he did well getting the the timber, it all looked nicely pressure treated for free, I dont think so. At least we know why he didnt show it last week it wasnt finished, if he did less taking photos he would get more done, there is only a certain amount of photos you can take of a weed infested plot
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Can someone post the link? I used to watch it on their site, but they no longer put up the whole programme.
There's some TV company considering my site for a series on 'A Year in the Life of an Allotment site' so hopefully there's something meatier in the pipeline somewhere. Keep your fingers crossed, we could do with something half decent.
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just started watching it on bbc online, only to realise that i saw that episode months ago. doh!!
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I watched it and smiled seeing him make the same mistakes, lets be honest, most of us have made. Very lucky have the council deliver free compost and bark chippings. Wish our local council were as generous.
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I enjoyed it a darn site more than Carol doing her thing with the folks in Devon.
Here the council sell the compost at just less than B&Q prices. the rest they give to farmers.
The can't be bothered with a bit here and a bit there, they only deal by the lorry load.
As for bark, I get the local tree surgeon to dump a lorry load either on my drive for the garden, or down the lottie.
It saves him from paying to dump it at the local tip.
I also enjoyed it more than Carols bit. Although I think Joe's bit should have been split into 2 as it did go on rather too long, and us GW addicts are used to 5 min. slots.
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what an interesting and different mixture of opinions :D.
i was expecting the usual five minute slot and was very pleasently surprised at the half hour marathon. i really enjoyed it. i think it showed joe in a very endearing light as up till now i have found him very boring. i liked that he was so enthusiatic and full of big plans like we all are when we start out.
i think he said more than once that rotovating was not the best idea but he explained his reasons for not taking his own advise and i tend to agree with him. it was very lucky getting the plot scraped but it was part of his tenency agreement and so why not take advantage. who wouldnt. and to be honest if he hadnt done that we would still be watching him turn over couch grass untill christmas. he will be pulling out weeds until kingdom come as it is but at least he might get some veg out of it too. I thought the triangle and diamond beds were hilarious and totally agree with the old timers on that one!!
cant wait for the next installment. :D
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There's some TV company considering my site for a series on 'A Year in the Life of an Allotment site' so hopefully there's something meatier in the pipeline somewhere. Keep your fingers crossed, we could do with something half decent.
wow, Robert, I think we'd all look forward to that, let us know what they decide ;D
I can only find an old episode from february, what am I doing wrong?
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I think the people dissing joe have forgotten the excitement of starting out and the enthusiasm that us newbies have.
It was stated in episode one that Joe was clueless with allotmenteering...and that he had got a plot for himself and his family!!.
Monty Don, in episode one said that Joe would be followed with his woes and successes throughout the year.
I think him making "simple" mistakes is fab...coz as a newbie myself I have made loads too...
You never know, Joe may be asking questions on this forum lol.
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I thought it was a great programme, yes he was lucky, but some people are, we get free manure & woodchip and some plots have been skimmed over on our site. He was aware of what he was doing with the rotavator and I think it would have been pretty boring to watch him digging over the plot by hand and I guess he would have lost heart. We all do thing diffrerently and why not!!
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But surely the point is that Gardeners World is meant to be the nations premier gardening programme. People watch it because they expect to see expert advice which they can follow.
Unlike other novices Joe has 40 years of archives at his fingertips, researchers and all the rest. He may know little about growing veg but he calls himself a gardener and so should know the basics about clearing and preparing fresh ground. I think it was inexcusable.
Manics: Gardeners World isn't available on BBC iPlayer but if you have the technology you could have watched him cocking things up in glorious HD ;D
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ah, well, not that technologically advanced, will wait 'til the beeb put it on cable..I can wait ;D
thanks, simon :)
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I was like watching us 12 odd years ago :lol
It was great to see Peter from the nat allot as he is local to me and the chairman of the fedration we have here of all the local allotments, he knows sooo much more than i will ever know !
I had to laugh at the 'shed' i couldnt believe the floor they put down !! going to have some great mice in there later ;D
And how convenient they got all that free wood !! My hubby has worked in a timber yard years and has NEVER been given wood like that !!!!!
Made me want to get up my lottie more but time is limited.
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I take Simon's point totally but like a few others found it entertaining, and he did admit the rotavator wasn't the best thing horticulturally but good for him psychologically and its his allotment.
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I have to say that I enjoyed the whole half an hour and switched over when his slot finished.
I think he was taking the older hands advice most of the time and did say he had picked a plot next to someone who knew what they were doing just to get that advice. But like us all on our plots at the end of the day you can decide whether to take the advice or try something different.
I know my "organic" methods caused a bit of comment from older hands, and I haven't admitted to planting by the moon to them yet - goodness knows what they'd say about that. But the chaps told me what type of raspberries and soft fruit I'd inherited and how to prune. They scoffed when I wouldn't use a rotovator as I wanted to know what the soil was like and where the weeds were. But at the end of the first season when everything grew - with little weeds left - they took the time to say that I done the real hard graft in gardening and how well they thought I had done. One of my lifes proud moments - I was recognised as a "worthwhile" novice. The next proudest moment was when of the old hands adopted enviromesh after seeing me use mine.
Having said all that my raised beds are 4ft wide and I do think the triangle/diamond potager look will be difficult to manage. And like everyone else - I'd advise to always take the time to dig and clear - not rotovate. So part of the enjoyment of last night was being able to sit back, take a sharp inward breath and mutter - "oh dear I wouldn't do it like that" ;D
Amazing how quickly we all become "old hands" ::)
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Must admit I thought the raised beds were rubbish
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I think anything that promotes allotments has got to be a good thing. I like the idea of him doing his own thing despite better advice. To me that's part of the beauty of it all. You can take advice if you want, but, at the same time, you can do as you please and learn from your mistakes as you go along.
If i had the chance to get my overgrown plot rotovated i'd go down that way too. I think the couch grass problem is over stated, and, it's a lot easier to get the weeds out once the soil has been cultivated, especially if it's heavy clay soil. I'm not sure about the mare's tail though!
Best of luck to him i say-and the same to anyone else just starting out. :)
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Hear, hear, EMMA JANE, well said.
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Well the whole thing seemed very lucky and unrealistic to me, 'happening across' all that 'free' treated wood, getting a 'digger' to dig it for him and tons of 'free' compost delivered right to the plot.
A typical plot (my ****).
I'd have liked to have seen him actually on his hands and knees doing the work like most of us have to do. Showing the realities of starting a plot.
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He said that he travelled far to get that plot and had looked at several before he chose that one. Perhaps that was why he managed to get the digger, compost, etc. Most of us just take the one closest to home.
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well it should be interesting to see what happens over the weeks anyway. Be funny watching him sow drills in those awkwardly shaped beds.
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Why? He's going to sow using diamond drills ;D ;D ;D
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Mare's tail will be saying yippee and multplying like mad.
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we have an allotment holder who had 2 triangle beds but they were only tiny maybe 2 1/2 foot wide at the max which she had for herbs and salads.
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I don't have a problem with diamond and triangle beds. They do it a lot in France in jardins potagers and it works. It's about prettiness.
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Yes I agree grawrc
If it does not work he can always change it.
I read in Sarah Cravens book that she started with box hedging all around her beds.She had seen it somewhere and liked it.She found it was not practical and started again .Surely this is what it is all about,enjoying your plot and being creative. :)
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Would you pay £26 for a shed like that. ???
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Shed ?
I thought that carbuncle was somewhere to grow couch and mares tail in the shade.
Grow it nice and tall so the rats can make a comfortable home.
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http://www.lifeisland.org/?p=327#more-327
http://www.lifeisland.org/?p=308#more-308
I have been looking for updates about the Manor Garden allotments that have been bulldozed to make way for concrete areas leading to the Olympic Stadiums, and found these.
I think a much more interesting programme could have been made by adopting a plot at this horrible new site and showing how to make the best of a bad job. Rather than watching Joe making the mistakes we see all around us every week on our own plots, which is boring, we could get some entertainment and encouragement from watching this awful looking place being resurrected, and the former community starting to recover. Joe Swift himself spoke up for retaining the Manor Garden allotments at the time, so it would be a good follow-up to this support.
[Why didn't they just leave the meadow as it was? Why scrape it and wreck it first?]
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I enjoyed watching it was good to see an allotment on the tele.. It reminded me of how I have been rushing around to get mine somewhere so the missus and the little one can get stuck in and plant stuff. I have gotten rid of all the weeds and grass hopefully! Got all my wood from pallets and so I thought it was half realistic and half tele.. Im looking forward to see how he goes I enjoyed it but then again I am making loads of mistakes but I think its part of it. An old boy told me I will make loads of mistakes just like him and that is part of it. I am so glad I dug and sieved all my soil for my raised beds. Mine are not diamonds by the way!lol
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Sorry if I've missed it, but I don't think anyone has mentioned that one of the reasons he decided to rotovate was that his soil had so much clay in it he could barely get his spade in!
I'd agree with the EJ's view completely- I enjoyed it and look forward to the next instalment. It would be no fun if we couldn't find something to criticise, would it? :D
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If you can't get a spade in, what's wrong with a fork? Mix a load of organic matter in, and obviously CW can get all it wants, and it'll be better next year. It could have been helpful to anyone faced with a similar situation.
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Absolute rubbish.It could only have been worse if Jamie Oliver, or Hugh Fearnley was involved.
Typical dumbing down designed to encourage the sort of people that are prevalent on our plots.Take on 10 rods, make 4 burial mounds, turn up every two weeks poke it with a stick and give up.
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Ever one keeps complaining about the fact that he will have huge weed problem. But tilling will loosen the soil so if he was smart,he could go back over it with fork an remove most of root clumps. Also since GW is on an organic kick I can't wait to see what type of organic weed killers they use to get rid of any respouted weeds he tilled under. As for most of rest joes bit I think It very possible for any one with a little prep to do same as Joe. Joe way is not wrong just not the way old hands would do it which sometimes is more work then really needed.
Also cheaping out when starting an allotment usually makes failure more likely.
As for GW broadcast seeding and row seeding so out date I cant see how they still do it since it waste time.
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In the next program I expect to see free greenhouses, water buts, coldframes, fruit bushes, fruit trees, plants and seeds, fertiliser, growbags that some garden centre just happens to find are surplus to requirements!!!
But the best bit has to be the valid comments from the other plotters about his triangular as well as diamond shaped beds. I bet they said a lot more when the cameras were not rolling. Only an instant makeover garden designer could have come up with those.
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It was just utter shite.
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I like Hugh ;D
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It was just utter shite.
albacore don't mince words WHAT DO YOU REALLY THINK.!!!
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rofl ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I hope the old plotholders next door are there secretly filming the 20 gardeners they get in at night to secretly do all 'jo swifts' hard work.
Hee hee, I love being cynical.
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In the next program I expect to see free greenhouses, water buts, coldframes, fruit bushes, fruit trees, plants and seeds, fertiliser, growbags that some garden centre just happens to find are surplus to requirements!!!
If Chris Beardshaw or Diarmuid Gavin were doing the allotment, you'd also need a few crates of Guinness that they need to drink while watching the 'extras' do the work.
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just a thought but our TV licence fee is being used to pay two people to stay at home and work on their own gardens. I wish!!!!!!!!
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To take that a step further
the licence fee is being spent on two people doing their own gardens which will encourage others to ruin a number of allotments by dumping stuff, and creating burial mounds, that our council tax will pay to have cleared when they give up because they aren't cut out for hard work, and even raised beds were too much for them.
Some plotholders have it given to them on a plate, free compost, leaf mulch, and bark delivered, yet they still can't hack it.
We have roughly a 75% failure rate on our plots.It was far more productive when a few of us all had 30 or 40 rods, then the council got a waiting list and asked for a few back.
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i think that is such a pessimistic view. i think people should be encouraged to have a go. yes a lot of people do underestimate how much work it is going to be but there are plenty of people out there who are willing to give it a go and do get on with it. i think i am a prime example of that. i had no idea when i started out how much work it was going to be and by your estimation i should not have been given a chance, but after three years i have stuck it out and am becoming an experienced plotholder. i made loads of mistakes when i started and still do make a few.
instead of concentrating the seventy five percent failure rate why not focus on the twenty five percent success rate? give people a chance for gawds sake.
whats wrong with offering free compost leaf mulch and bark?
how much of our licence fee is being spent on joes allotment? sixty five quid a year i think he said?
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Well said ;D
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Interesting to note that of all the new starters the ones who turn up, and start digging from one end to the other are more likely to continue.
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In the next program I expect to see free greenhouses, water buts, coldframes, fruit bushes, fruit trees, plants and seeds, fertiliser, growbags that some garden centre just happens to find are surplus to requirements!!!
Well i got a free greenhouse, fruit bushes, plants and seed its not totaly realistic and he does perhapse as being a garden designer have access to loads of contacts so thats realistic.
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My take on Gardeners' World is that they are there to show the RIGHT way to do it. Not how to make simple silly mistakes through being lazy.
If they DO get loads of people taking up allotments and doing it that way, they are BOUND to find it more difficult later, and end up chucking it in cos it's more than they expected.
I think that, in the longer term, the way Mr Swift approached this will have a detrimental effect to people encouraged to take on a new plot.
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I find myself agreeing more with Albacore, I dont like the way people sign up for an allotment, dont do anything with it for a year, then moan because they get told off by the allotment association.
If you find it hard because you have other commitments then DON'T GET ONE!
I find the whole jo's plot thing interesting'ish but rather fake.
I find Gardeners world problematic in that it always seemed aimed at a certain small group of people. I dont think the majority of us want to know how to make a naturalised pond or a grow a banana tree in their jungle garden, also who buys individual copper rings for each cabbage?
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Well said Pumper.
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I think if you want to learn anything about gardening you are best off looking at wartime books, up until Alan Titchmarsh era.
After that, it was dumbed down when the BMW 5 series brigade started getting downsizing ideas.River Cottage etc.
Now you just have some clueless individuals who transplant.
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As a BMW owner who transplanted some leeks last year (forgot to sow any), I resent that remark Albacore - but as this is only our third year I can't yet claim to have stuck it out ;D
(Ok, it's not a 5 series, it's 17 year old 3 series I kept when I was made redundant in 1994).
By making it look easier you could attract people it wouldn't previously have occurred to, who turn into real enthusiasts. I thought it would be easier than it turned out to be, but have become an allotment bore anyway. On the other hand I suppose a) they wouldn't have been watching in the first place and b) if GW show the wrong way to do, it they really should show how to do it properly as well.
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next week, they should have some of the older guys on our plots, standing there, heads on one side, telling how it should be done ;D
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the truth is war time books are out date in most cases are just scaled down farming methods. the best books on proper veg gardening where written in America. In late 70's and early 80's respectively "How to grow more vegetables and square foot gardening. Both books put most garden books to shame since they break it down to simple and easy steps that even longest going allotmenteer and newest newbie can understand.
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Series 5,eighth season and site rep.
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Where exactly is this allotment in London?
Someone on here must know and can go and have a look!! :D
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manicscousers to bad your garden info is out of date. Since, your info is how it was done not how it should be done. May be joe will let you hold his hoe some time. But you can also tell him how you still plant in rows and then thin since you planted to thickly.
my bet joe will have better production in his allotment then you old timers get 5 years.
Since he will be using modern techniques.
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he lives in hackey and he said it was a 20 drive or 30 on the bike so dependant on the direction he went its got to be somewhere like lea valley, walthamstow or stoke newington.
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manicscousers to bad your garden info is out of date. Since, your info is how it was done not how it should be done. May be joe will let you hold his hoe some time. But you can also tell him how you still plant in rows and then thin since you planted to thickly.
my bet joe will have better production in his allotment then you old timers get 5 years.
Since he will be using modern techniques.
Manics are very experienced veg growers and I for one am pleased to learn from their experience.
You are being a bit cocky Mr 838 carrots :)
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There's lots of good information in some of the old books, all you have to do is adapt it a bit. What I don't like is the modern picture books which all repeat the same tired old stuff.
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Robert_Brenchley by picture books I assume mean ones like monty don's
"The complete gardener"
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manicscousers to bad your garden info is out of date. Since, your info is how it was done not how it should be done. May be joe will let you hold his hoe some time. But you can also tell him how you still plant in rows and then thin since you planted to thickly.
my bet joe will have better production in his allotment then you old timers get 5 years.
Since he will be using modern techniques.
you don't know us and I don't think it's appropriate for you to pass judgement on how we do things ???
I was actually talking about the 'old guys', our way of growing things is so different to how they do things, they shake their heads at US !!!!
and what the h*ll are you talking about?
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I just want to say that I have had nothing but sound good advice from the manics I always read their posts and get probably more support for my questions from them than anyone else. What is the problem? All of a sudden its got personal also all this cr**p about newbies not wanting to work hard etc is pathetic
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What a shame- I was enjoying the varied reactions to GW and now it's got personal. :(
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Who let the trolls in?
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Oh well...we all have our own styles to things..when any newbie ask how to do things...
I explain how I do it and why...and let them to digest the info..they are more than likely garden they way with a bit of my way... :)
Everybody want be individual...and let us be so...
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Robert_Brenchley by picture books I assume mean ones like monty don's
"The complete gardener"
The guy can actually write; I like 'My Roots' and 'The Jewel Garden'. Some of his stuff is impossibly commercial though. He's far from being the only one who's sinned in that respect, so let's not single him out.
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Were we all watching the same program???
Monty clearly states in the beginning that joe is a good designer, and has no idea how to grow veg... but wanted to start to do so for his family!!.. In reality!!!... So the BBC decided to follow his progress.
I am so appalled at this discussion and the remarks that it should be done right as its broadcast to the nation.
If a newbie turned up on your sites... first thing you do is say hi to your new neighbours... I thought it was great Joe met his fellow allotment holders and asked questions about the site.... isnt that what most first timers do!!.
His local council dug up his plot... I have read many a thread that plots are dug up by the local council.
His local council gives compost that they have made...that does happen in the town adjacent to mine.
His shed was bought on EBAY if anyone saw the bit of paper he had in his hand... he bid on it personally.. not on behalf of the BBC.
For the experts, he called the allotment winner of so many years for advice..... so didnt the BBC cater for you there.
Just amazed how many folk have slapped the poor bloke down just because he is a garden designer!!.
If it was a newbie on your own sites... you wouldnt be banging on about how bad they doing things, you would be advising them... Just like Joe's fellow allotmenteers are doing with him.
I think you keep forgetting that his allotment is for his personal use. Nothing arrived all at once, did anyone take note of the date on his own film camera... it was all done over a few months!!!.
Sorry to bang on a bit but I think the way its been done is great and I thought it was hilariously funny that he wanted triangles.... he is a designer after all... doesnt matter that he cant grow in straight lines... I dont thats for sure .. I grow where I can in my garden... and have a perfect spot to put a triangle raised bed... perfect for lettuce i think :P :P
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Totally agree Spring - I'll hold up my hand when I did it completely wrong first time out - anyone else holding up theirs? :)
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Just amazed how many folk have slapped the poor bloke down just because he is a garden designer!!.
I think he gets slapped because he's a Burmmie.
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I wasn't being critical of any individual.
For my preferred style I find that modern ''baby talk'' veg books are a load of old rot.
I have said that no dig etc is a fantastic way of going on, if that is your thing, it isn't mine.
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And before a great big row breaks out and people get touchy. My clueless individuals that transplant was aimed at the producers of GW who now believe that we all just want to be shown how to tap the base of a garden centre pot, and plonk it in the ground.
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Well its up to the individual what they think about TV programs and if you think the scenario is rather unlikely then that doesn't make you a bad person just realistic.
Getting your whole plot turned over etc etc etc in a week or two is VERY lucky. I tend not to blindly believe everything I see on TV.
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Hope you didn't think I really was offended Albacore - I'm a completely umbrage free zone :)
Looking forward to the aftermath of this Friday night for "Multiple rant - the sequel"
PS Does anyone know whether the allotment stuff was filmed last year or earlier this year?
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he probably does gets some corporate help, but overall, its a good thing to have anything to do with allotments on mainstream tv. It will be interesting to see what mistakes are made purely froma voyueristic point but hopefully he balances with advice on putting it right.
You cannot please everyone, the "old timers" (myself included) will think they know everything anyway, so its not aimed at them. The newbies will be encouraged by seeing it on the tv.
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I agree, that coverage is good, however I do question the delivery of that coverage.
I would rather be shown by a seasoned veteran than a theorist.
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I agree totally with Springbokgirlie - I really enjoyed it - yes we laughed at the fact he was cutting up the weeds, but it was great to see allotments on tv. we all make mistakes when we start out and all I can say is good luck to him.
I'm glad to say that on my allotments people say hello and make you feel welcome, then let you get on in your own way....they also offer lots of free plants when they have them spare and only give advice if you ask for it...I feel very sad to read such unpleasantness on A4A ... this seems to be a trend in our society.
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I dont feel I'm being unpleasant at all ???, I'm looking forward to the programme despite my cynical attitude to the media, I like the 'veteran' idea Albacore. I hope they include all the codgers in it with their moaning to add realism. Thats exactly what happened to me, it drove me up the wall initially. "NAAAAA, you cant do that, it wont work".
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Really enjoyed it, and it is great to see allotments featured on TV by one of the main presenters of Gardeners World. We have been asking for years to have something like this on TV, so I don't think we should be arguing too much about it, even though it is not perfect. We were lucky years ago if they featured one thing about veggie growing on TV gardening programmes, so to have this is great and it shows how the tide has turned. Will look forward to following his progress. :) busy_lizzie
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It's an annual event - everytime there is something about allotments or growing veg on the TV, some people on here slate it and get really nasty and personal. It happened with the Carol Klein programme last year because it wasn't aimed at the experienced gardener on here but at the complete beginner - it would be interesting to know how many people joined this board as a result of that programme. It happened when the Beeb did/didn't show the Big Dig. I have stayed out of this up to now because I didn't watch it and because last year, when I defended the CK programme, they turned on me.
Campaign slogan for A4A:
All gardening programmes should be clones of The Victorian Kitchen Garden (which is a damned fine programme btw)
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Wow everyone getting very heated. I stupidly missed most of it as I had fallen asleep! I generally can't keep awake that time of night of a Friday! Old age I think!
I think that it is important though to encourage debate - just to show that there are many differing views all - in their own way - having some merit!
I am keeping out of this one but can't wait for Friday evening to see what I missed! Bet I can't stay awake though!
Old Bird
;D
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yes, victorian kitchen garden. Harry Dodson rules.
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It's very disappointing to see such heated and ill thought comments by what I'm sure is a minority. The saying " each to their own " has a truth to it, if you don't like the style of the feature, then don't watch again!! There are many people on this site who take great pleasure and plentiful knowledge from GW, and the fact that one of the presenters is starting as a complete novice, using his own style ( which we all have ) i think is to be applauded. Lets remember, we all have one common love.... our lotties, and gardens. Lets chill out and enjoy. :) :) :) Rant over
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I find what you say a bit arrogant andy pandy. Its not 'ill thought' as if there's something deeply evil about what you call 'a minority' on this forum, its just an opinion about a program. I dont actually wish any 'ill thoughts' on anyone.
The reason I'm critical is BECAUSE I like gardening and having a plot and all the work that goes with it. I also realise the media is not always honest or realistic.
I really like this forum and the fact we can differ in our opinions and I wouldn't put down or label anyone as anything just because they didn't like a part of gardeners world.
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Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Joe Swift according to the BBC website bills himself as a gardening expert.He doesn't say I can draw things, lay paving slabs, and charge people, but I'm a bit of a plum when it comes to growing veg.We are told he is an expert, of all things gardening.
As such I would expect a gardening expert to be a bit good at things.At the very least to have the common sense that two pieces of wood when cut square, cannot be fixed together at any angle other than 90degrees, regardless of what size nails you use.
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I have just caught up with the GW episode in qustion and really enjoyed watching. I hope the programme inspires others to think about setting up their own allottments who perhaps havent considered it before.Thats because people who grow their own are generally more enviromentally friendly,eat healthier and get more exercise as a result. This can only be a good thing.
I smiled at Joe's enthusiasm and keeness ro learn and do well and wish him well. I look forward to the next episode.
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Good point Albacore but perhaps he thought a rough finish more "authentic".
As to location, this site suggests he's in Enfield
http://www.reelfilmlocations.co.uk/news_detail.php?id_news=2 (http://www.reelfilmlocations.co.uk/news_detail.php?id_news=2)
I do like Joe and his enthusiasm, even the irregular beds, but you can like someone and still disapprove of what they're doing :)
I think the proof of the pudding will be whether he makes it really clear that a) he's lost a lot of top soil and b) created a very time consuming problem for himself (the couch grass) and advises others not to do the same.
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I've thought of a better way to explain my view on this I think.
If you paid school fees (licence fee) to send your child to be educated by a qualified teacher, you would expect that if they had a lesson, the master, would at least demonstrate a level of proficiency in the area being taught.If the school didn't have those skills, you would quite rightly assume they would cast out the net, to bring in a subject matter expert to fulfil their obligation to educate all the little darlings whose parents have an expectation of what they will be learning.
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I find what you say a bit arrogant Andy Pandy. Its not 'ill thought' as if there's something deeply evil about what you call 'a minority' on this forum, its just an opinion about a program. I don't actually wish any 'ill thoughts' on anyone.
The reason I'm critical is BECAUSE I like gardening and having a plot and all the work that goes with it. I also realise the media is not always honest or realistic.
I really like this forum and the fact we can differ in our opinions and I wouldn't put down or label anyone as anything just because they didn't like a part of gardeners world.
Apologies to you Sawfish, and anyone else that i may have offended, i really didn't mean to!! ;) At the end of the day i felt it was good that he came along and did his own thing, and not waltz on, click his fingers and hey presto, a pristine lottie. Once again, No offence intended. ;D
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Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Joe Swift according to the BBC website bills himself as a gardening expert.He doesn't say I can draw things, lay paving slabs, and charge people, but I'm a bit of a plum when it comes to growing veg.We are told he is an expert, of all things gardening.
As such I would expect a gardening expert to be a bit good at things.At the very least to have the common sense that two pieces of wood when cut square, cannot be fixed together at any angle other than 90degrees, regardless of what size nails you use.
I think Joe's history of garden design has come to the fore so to speak, if you see the BBC press office article on Joe, it says he studied garden design at Chelsea Physic Garden ? , and now has his own company designing and building gardens in the London area, to the purists among you, i guess his style is slightly unorthodox, but fun none the less, what do you reckon?
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Sorry for being a big moan, you know I love you all really.
:'(
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The one good thing I see is that if they follow it over a period it may show up the consequences of all the instant gardening the telly has been peddling for years. Slow and sure is the way to go for the long term.
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It happened when the Beeb did/didn't show the Big Dig.
Now don't ask me why but that's a program I could watch over and over. Indeed I have in fact, I've seen the whole series 4 or 5 times and I could still watch it again without getting bored.
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I totally agree Plot 69, you got to love the guys over in Wales. Great viewing
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I missed GW last friday (so caught up in corry I forgot to press record) but after reading this I can,t wait for next friday to make my own mind up
as for big dig it was on all day a while back, afraid I got bored
marg
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I missed the programme so I though I would look at it on IPlayer unfortunately Iplayer will not work for me. Anyone else had the same problems?
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iplayer has a couple of funny quirks - I have a google speed-up-the-internet feature that has to be turned off to use iplayer. They have quite a good help section...
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I watched the programme last night. I agree about the problems that have been created by the scraping and rotovating but overall enjoyed the programme. Unlike some others I think it was an interesting idea to show an a beginner (at veg growing and allotmenteering) setting out to create an allotment from the beginning. For all the newcomers that our hobby is currently attracting it seems the programme may hold particular relevance.
I think the "warts and all" approach if shown properly could provide usefull information for beginners though I can see it may not be particularly relevant to the experienced allotmenteer.
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I too loved the big dig. The london guy and his daughter were hilarious.
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As I have mentioned elsewhere I don't watch TV gardening as a rule, but because of all the interest in this particular thread I thought I would have a look at in 'Catch up TV'
Surprise! Surprise! I enjoyed it.
OK he is going to have problems with weeds (don't we all) but that is controllable and if he is prepared to put the work in he will be successful. As he says it is up to him if he want fancy shaped beds so good luck to him.
The bit that come over to me is; his lack of knowledge about soils & planting.
There he is a 'designer' that probaly knows all that there is to know about designing a garden and what plants to put where, but doesn't know the basics.
The bit I never liked about 'makeover' programmes (hence my reason for not watching TV gardening programmes) was how easy it was to produce a lovely garden then leave the owner high and dry about its aftercare.........could it be the presenters didn't know how??.....It would seem so with Joe.
I am going to keep an open mind on the final outcome and probably will watch the series if only to see what happens.
In my opinion a garden will only give out as much effort as that that is put into it!! so lets see what he puts into it.
What I hope doesn't happen is an army of BBC minders come in off camera and get the plot ready for the next weeks programme.
I want to see 'warts & all!!
As with all 'newbies' I wish him the best of luck, after all, many years ago I was as naive as he seems to be, but I kept at it and now I consider myself to be a reasonable 'grower'
note; I never said 'gardener' I don't think I will ever be a good gardener :(
Guess we will have to open up a new board now just to pass comment on the series ;D
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I managed to get the hang of Iplayer, but watched the wrong episode by mistake. I was rather irritated by Carol Klein zipping about from one West Country garden to another without ever giving anyone a chance to get a real look at any of them, constant references to 'the Silly Isles' rather than 'the Isles of Scilly' or 'Scilly', which is a good way to get up the locals' noses down there and show yourself up as an ignorant emmet, and an RHS expert demonstrating how to prune a clematis without showing me anything of how to do it!
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I just looked on the list of last Friday's programmes - easier than trying to search.
After some of the comments people have made about the problems he was going to have, I was surprised at how much was made within the programme about the couch and the problems it was going to cause.
Thought the beds were ugly, but each to his own, I suppose.
Sally
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Ok after much fiddling around finally downloaded the episode and watched it. I could not watch that episode direct from the BBC site but I could watch the previous week. I think there was a problem with that particular show.
So how did the BBC do. My opinion is that it was a very good program to watch and I agree with the points made by Springbokgirlie on this thread. I think the question is "how will he dig himself out of this weed problem". Say what you like I think there will be loads of people watching with dribble rolling down their chins in anticipation. Some hoping it will go wrong. Others hoping it will work out and they will have a saviour for their own garden/allotment.
I watched Geoff and I think he would be happy that joe is at least putting himself in a lot of gardeners shoes. I think they know how critical gardeners can be and it was nice to see him go off and "blag" wood. It was also a decent touch when Cleve gave him a small bag of potatoes and a few Jerusalm Artichokes.
It was good to see his face when he suddenly realised he would have to get planting soon otherwise he would not grow anything in the season. He does know that he has a weed problem but he seems to be prepared to fight it out.
If you did not like it, fine you don't have to watch. Remember this is entertainment, so either treat it as good fun or maybe just learn something from it. If you thought it was so bad that you will never watch GW again, then maybe you should write to the BBC telling them exactly why and what you would like to see changed.
I for one am arranging the cold beer, crisps and video this time so that I can review the allotment bit again over the weekend. Who knows this may become a classic like the Victorian Garden.
happy planting
Bill
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I've managed to watch the allotment episode. In fairness, Joe does appear to have got everything bar the shed free, and he only paid £25 for the shed. He had peple helping him, but so do a fair few people on my site, and he appears to have had good reason to travel some distance; I wouldn't want to wait three years for a plot either.
I see no reason why everything on an allotment should be straight rows and right angles, but I do think his triangles are too big. Couch and mares' tail are going to be the main problems, but he does seem to be aware of it. He's really set himself up by adding all that compost; he's going to have the same problem I had at one stage. Couch is shallow-rooting, but if you dig it and don't get it out, you put some roots down at a spade's depth. If you then put stuff on top, you then have some so deep you won't get it out without double digging, and it'll just keep coming back until you do go down deep. On the other hand, he will improve that clay soil with it.
What would have been far better is if they'd set up two allotments side by side, in a similar state. Joe could have done one, while the other could have been done by someone who knew what they were doing, and it could have demonstrated how it should be done, while Joe showed everyone how it shouldn't.
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Robert I think that's a bril' idea, but these celeb gardeners don't like to be seen "getting it wrong" there are not many like the late Geoff Hamilton who would share his mistakes with the viewers.
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They're too insecure. Geoff was a genuine expert, and there aren't many of those on the box. It's actually quite brave of Joe to go showing himself up like this.
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I forgot I can get catchup TV so I have seen the prog at last,having read all this thread I expected not to enjoy it but I did :o I think it is very brave of joe to set himself up like that cuz it,s just how some newbie,s are
over the weeks (months in real time) we will be able to see why the roots should have been dug and why raised beds are the shape they are mmm just wondering if there will be a rash of diamonds now
so it is a bit unbelievable that things shoud just happen like that but things do happen that seem unbelievable sometimes
marg
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A rash of diamonds.....we obviously have very trendy allotmenteers on our site...look what I spotted today doing my rounds for the plot assessments .......
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/dlp133/PlotassessmentsApril2008109.jpg)
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ooo, i feel a potager coming on...
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I also finally managed to watch this episode.
I can't help wondering if too much is being made of getting all the roots out first. My plot is Marestail infested and I will never get all the roots out, no matter how carefully and thoroughly I dig and weed. I rotavated a bit last year (shock horror) and guess what - less marestail growth than the areas that I had dug manually.
Rotavating meant I finally have the whole plot under cultivation and I will continue to 'bother' the marestail.
Joe clearly said that he needs to dig his beds by hand and he hasn't applied the compost yet until he had dug and weeded. I think his biggest problem is going to be trying to walk along his woodchip paths when they are lush with marestail growth. :o
I also think his beds are too wide but then I have some 'beds' that I have to walk on to get to the middle - 8x4 is just too piddling for things like spuds and sweetcorn.
I liked the video diary feel to the episode, it gave a timeline to how long this had taken, so although we saw it spliced into 30 mins, it had taken him about 10 days to get to that stage.
Anyone else familiar with Gt Cambridge Road and Church Street in Edmonton? I'm pretty certain that is where his allotment is.
I don't usually watch GW but I will tune in tomorrow for the next installment.
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i thought it might be there on the grt cambridge road/church st. I grew up in Enfield and now work in edmonton and pass it on my way to work. it really looked familiar and i can just imagine the reaction of the peeps of edmonton of what we have all made of the allotment! lol
you never know I might be able to srounge some wood around there in the local diy store ;D ;)
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Getting all the root out probably dioesn't matter; my strategy is to get most of it out, then dig out the last bits when I take the crop, by which time they've all revealed themselves. But you do need to get to a certain point; if the plot's left full of couch, it all forms a mat and you're just digging turf again.
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... Remember this is entertainment, so either treat it as good fun or maybe just learn something from it.
Spot on. The beeb aims to produce entertainment, better than ITV.
Its having to compete with Corrie and A Place In The Sun.
Isn't the idea to produce a cliff hanger each week to get the ratings up - just like Bill Oddie and Spring Watch.
- How will Joe deal with the weeds ?
- What will he plant first ?
- Will the diamonds be successful ?
- Will the no-dig raised beds succeed ?
- What will Joe blag next?
... Tune in next week for another thrilling episode of "Joe in ... O u t e r L o n d o n".
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I watched it last night and really enjoyed it. My take on the weeds is he obviously knows more about couch than I did when I took on mine (which looked very similar). I got mine rotovated and the roots were all chopped up and in January I was trying to pick out bits of root and not too much soil but I too was also in a hurry to get planting (who isn't when they are new) and put plants in hoping they would compete with couch - some did, some didn't. Starting my fourth year, I am winning the war with the couch and we are down to skirmishes in most areas. It is now a war with the ground elder.
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A rash of diamonds.....we obviously have very trendy allotmenteers on our site...look what I spotted today doing my rounds for the plot assessments .......
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/dlp133/PlotassessmentsApril2008109.jpg)
muppets
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I'd agree with that - just because they have seen it on telly, they follow slavishly.
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I am winning the war with the couch and we are down to skirmishes in most areas. It is now a war with the ground elder.
Ground elder is much harder to deal with. keep at it, every time you take a crop, and you will get there.
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Can't wait for the second installment tonight!
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Knowing Joe's luck some kind soul wanted some exercise and dug it over for him, then gave him an unused rotovator that they had kicking about.Having helped Joe load up his greenhouse, the kind soul then cooked him dinner, let him have a go on his wife, and gave him a pony for the diesel.
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having got the greenhouse up, Joe used it to solve world poverty, and developed a cure for all known illnesses.Which was nice.
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I am sure that we will see what tonight has to show. Given previous posts from Beeb reserchers i am sure some of these comments will find there way back.
I still DONT think its an april fool!!
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Well now... I've been away from this forum for a while and look what's kicked off! Hee hee.
I wish him luck n_n I wish I had as many helpful neighbours as Joe does, everyone on my section of the site has given up or retired, it's really lonely. :'(
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very short segment this week :'(
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So all you have to do is phone Monty!
And then you get iffy advice about onions and shallots.
Someone on the forum predicted piles of topsoil being delivered and there they were!
http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments1_homepage.html
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Hes brining his kids next week that will be fun.
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Well he did mentioned about bark under the shed decking and weed surpressant under the path......Oh and that he has/will dig dig and dig again in the raised triangles to rid of weeds...Do you think he read this forum...? ::)
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didn't really make me want to get out and grow :)
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I watched because of the interest on this forum and yawned .... and yawned .... I'm awake now! ;) ;)
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If tonight's program was anything to go by i think it's the beginning of the end for gardeners world. :'(
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I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but GW died as a serious gardening programme years ago. Nowadays it dances round things while giving no real information.
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Do you think he read this forum...? ::)
Why would he want to read this forum? He's got a direct line to Monty Don.
I've got a direct line to Alan... My brother Alan who knows buggerall about gardening which is why I read this forum :D
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didn,t see it all as I forgot again ( says it all !!) my method is to record it and fastforward over the trash saw the bit where he was given the garlic and then planted some of his own in modules mmm why? he had just seen them growing well outdoors, why not go by his fellow allotmenteer instead of asking monty (he,s very good at digging holes isn,t he! anyone need a lesson)
and no-one knows how to split perenials do they fastforward CK!!
not much reaction to last nights prog so far,but then not much in it was there?
marg
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I wouldn't think any hardy vegetable needs to be started in a module now; it may be a late spring, but the soil will be warming up, and a bit of fleece will compensate for the cold weather. Monty gave a 'book' answer not one designed for the specific situation. I wasn't so critical of this episode, but I do wish they wouldn't take enough material for an hour's programme, and compress it into half the time.
I think it's designed for the sort of people who use a garden centre I visited today. Lots of extremely well-build sheds and furniture, at prices to match, and lots of expensive specimen plants for those who want to buy a garden rather than growing one. You can watch GC, learn a few fancy words to impress the total non-gardeners, and you don't have to worry about actually learning how to grow anything, so skip all that.
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I've made a conscious decision to be more charitable to the folks over at Gardeners World - I've had to, I was running out of televisions, and bricks. Especially now that the other two presenters have put a few hundred miles between themselves and moody Monty, and he's got to cope all on his own with just the YTS girl to help him out.
I didn't think Joe's segment was too bad last night; he did his onion sets the same way that I do so I can't argue with that.
No, I reckon I'll just take the advice of one or two others on here and treat it as entertainment; it works fairly well on that level, although not as well as watching people bash their heads against brick walls on YouTube ::)
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I liked it when Joe said "It is taking over my life"
I feel like that sometimes. :)
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Monty's away for 6 weeks now :(- wonder if they'll get anyone else in -Sarah Raven would be good to keep the ranting going on here ;) but my preference would be Chris Beardshaw!
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I think they'll struggle to find someone that would make Monty look good.
What if I need to dig a hole in a meaningful way, without Monty, how will I knwo how to throw the spade at the ground.
Funny how you rarely see builders doing that isn't it.Ah yes, that'll be because you have to work all day.
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I like Monty! I know he isn't Geoff Hamilton or even Alan Titchmarsh but I think he does OK.
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I think he gets bashed a bit unfairly myself. As I've said before, he can write well when he stops being commercial. He has done some good programmes (like Real Gardens) when the producers have given him the chance. I think we should blame them.
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Hi all.
I think you are all being a bit harsh on GW and Joe. You all sound like experienced allotmenteers but are you the one's the show is aimed at or newbies? If its too basic you are not interested but if its more what you are looking for then begineers will not be interested. You can not please all the people all of the time.
However for me it was very interesting (as it is to read a lot of your comments as to how much effort goes into what you do) as i was considering getting an allotment myself. You all seem sceptical of the free help he has received, I can't say for sure that the free bark and compost is normal but surely someone would expose GW if it were not and other allotment owners would bombard the local council with preferencial treatment complaints (ok ok i know it goes on with councils but for compost??) As for the free wood, well by sheer coincidence the local DIY store had just carried out a major refurb and was clearing lots of stuff that was...well just old and not really saleable. I know this to be true as I live nearby and got some bargains myself (not free granted, I'm sure the mention of BBC helped with that, but he did say he was lucky and not to expect the same)
The other thing that caught my interest was I recognised the area the allotment was situated, narrowed it down to where it was and popped over on Sunday morning to have a look, and guess who was there? Yep Joe and about 5 or 6 others....just filming. There looked like a couple of kids also but may or may not have been on the same plot (they looked like they were gardening/playing). It's probably not fair to reveal exactly where the plot is just in case in case somebody thinks it is funny to vandalise it. Anyway it looked like it was just Joe working as they filmed, I may go and have another look one evening to see if i can catch any helpers ;-)
On the whole I think you should cut GW a little slack here, at least they are promoting allotments.If they showed all the pitfalls who would take it up?
As for the diamond beds, well he's a designer for gods sake, what did we expect?
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I think the point is that if it's aimed at newbies it should be realistic, and given when it's showing it probably should show him taking advice - otherwise lots of other newbies will take on allotments and expect loads of free stuff and no perennial weeds.
Incidentally a group have taken on the plot next to mine and cleared and rotovated. I thought they were doing a marvellous job getting so much dug over and planted, and was beginning to be a bit jealous, until I went up yesterday and saw the weeds sprouting like it was weed festival in weedtown. I suspect Joe's may look similar in a few weeks' time.
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I'd like Bob Flowerdew to do it, he's just the best. Especially when he slightly terrifies me with his matching pink gloves and hairband. I really like his alternative views and ways of doing things.
Maybe its just me but I find a lot of the presenters on GW a bit boring. I'm so glad Titchmarsh is gone.
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If we are into discussing presenters, who remembers when Alan Titchmarsh used to interview Fred Streeter 40 years ago on what was then the BBC Home Service (now Radio Four) and would say crass things like;
"I have bought a new fangled rotovater and I thought that I would rotovate my new weedy allotment."
Fred would then say: "Bless my soul young man, you mustn't do that or you will get weeds everywhere, and more of them!"
They don't make them like that any more!
http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments1_homepage.html
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I'd like Bob Flowerdew to do it, he's just the best. Especially when he slightly terrifies me with his matching pink gloves and hairband. I really like his alternative views and ways of doing things.
I'm with you Sawfish. Huzzah for Bob!
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me and the wife visited bob's garden in norfolk in 2006, a real treat and inspiration, if you read his book on no-work gardening, most of images are from his garden. i felt that i knew my way round, from owning book!,
rgds, tony
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I think there are to many presenters on GW you only need one..........a new one!
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Can it forever, way past its best.
Those who learn anything from it now, will probably be equally involved with the test card, or teletubbies.
As for the head gradener bird, is she care in the community?
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As for the head gradener bird, is she care in the community?
She can come and care for me any day. :P
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Cleve West's take is quite interesting: http://web.mac.com/clevewest/Cleves_Blog/Blog/Entries/2008/4/19_Moaning.html
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There may come a time when Joe might pay someone to help him privately, (I’ve done it on the odd occasion as unless you are retired it’s impossible to spend as much time as you need to keep it in check), but that’s his business.
Wonder if the good folks on the waiting list would agree.
Defeats the whole object. If you can't give it the time, give it up.
Sounds all wrong to me on so many levels.
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Thanks for that link,simon- interesting!
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Cheers, I found the link to it from Garden Monkey's site, where there's also this (http://thegardenmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/01/garden-monkeys-guide-to-dig-brother.html)
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There may come a time when Joe might pay someone to help him privately, (I’ve done it on the odd occasion as unless you are retired it’s impossible to spend as much time as you need to keep it in check), but that’s his business.
Wonder if the good folks on the waiting list would agree.
Defeats the whole object. If you can't give it the time, give it up.
Sounds all wrong to me on so many levels.
I do not see a problem with getting help now and again if you need to.
Not worth getting your knickers in a twist about it :D
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Cheers, I found the link to it from Garden Monkey's site, where there's also this (http://thegardenmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/01/garden-monkeys-guide-to-dig-brother.html)
;D ;D ;D ;D both links very interesting I shall try to be more charitable and yes ,it is the first time I,v watched GW in ages
marg
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I am very upset.
I am just about to go out and my DVD recorder has stopped working. I shall have to wait for a few days until Gardeners World appears on the BBC web site.
http://www.allaboutliverpool.com/allaboutallotments1_homepage.html
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I watched it and thought it was good.
I think it will mainly appeal to people who are starting out on an allotment.
I like Joe and do not want to criticise him to much but I thought he should have explained how and why you chit potatoes,also he did not explain about earthing up or protecting from frost.
IF he gives a little lesson as he does each thing it will be much more useful.
It was nice to see the children involved and I thought the mini triangles were great
Be more informative Joe. :)
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much better tonight if they could just cut CK out then i would be happy hubbie has to leave the room her voice just annoys him hehe
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Im still loving it :D
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Although I have sole responsibility for planning and maintenance of our ornamental garden - can't say I am enamoured :-\. But Carol not too bad in terms of ornamentals. The new head gardener is okay too in a substitute teacher sort of the way, she obviously has lots of knowledge she just needs to understand her audience and put it across - relax we don't bite (well not too much).
Highlights for me - the Geoff Hamilton bit, who was the absolutely best presenter ever, no-one comes near. And I am afraid after that the Joe Swift bits, do you think he has been reading the A4A site as this week explaining exactly why he's made decisions about rotovating and the pain its going to cause him ??? Oh and in between (although did stay tuned in for the Peony bits as my fave flower) I switched to britains got talent. Sad.....but there you have it. ;D
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I like Carol but I saw her on a very old programme the other day and she spoke quite normally.I think the producers tell them to sound enthusiastic and they completely overact.Carol is a real expert but the over exuberance puts me off.
Christine on Christine's garden has gone the same way as well. ;D
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Im really enjoying all of it never watched GW until the other week.. learnt loads tonight how to prick out and I love the allotment part... so good to see his children and missus up there getting involved that for me is what its all about really good Friday nite tele ;D ;D ;)
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I liked the fact that the old allotment folk took the mickey with the triangles and made mini ones for the kids!!...All light hearted fun.
Maybe they have been reading all the comments... but at least they found it amusing and the younger generations thought it was a fab idea.
I think at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you lay out your allotment, its enjoying what you grow, and involving the family is great too. In today's society that was a blessing to see!!!.
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Another hour of rubbish.
Hole digging, dividing some perennials, and a bit of transplanting.
Carol Klein, what's going on with that hair? Worst bit of pond building I have ever seen.
Joe's plot, Words fail me.
Head gardener bird, anyone watching on Iplayer, can you tell me how many times she says really! double for a really really!
Surely the beeb must see that this programme needs a heart transplant.Sack them all, fresh experienced talent required that can present to adults, not a Blue Peter audience.
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After becoming very allergic to Gardener's World, I find the new format almost watchable again.
That clip of Geoff Hamilton made me think just how much he's been missed, and did anyone notice how much information he gave out in about a minute compared to what they do now, and actually telling us what to do, and not just making vague suggestions?
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I didn't think it was too bad at all. Inevitably, it was too superficial, but I thought it compared well to the clip of Geoff Hamilton at the end, which didn't explain much either. Why are asparagus traditionally planted on a little ridge anyway? Was it makework for those legions of underpaid and overworked Victorian gardeners or what? I do think Joe needs to explain more about what he's doing though, if the audience are going to learn anything. We're not seeing much of the hard graft of doing an allotment either, which isn't going to help people realise what they're taking on.
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I cannot stand it it is like waching paint dry they could easly make the curent gardeners world in to a 15 min program its just all so vage
I am in love with uktv gardens as it runns all or the old gardeners world ;D
I love the bits by Bob flowerfewas (i eaven take notes ;D) as when I eventualy get my allotment I would like to be as organic as posible
as I am prity new to gardening i an sure if i only had the current program all i would know how to do would would behow to dig a hole and put a large plant in from the garden center (i know they say devide stuff and use it from other places in your garden but when you have only had a 20 by 10 feet space for 2 years and it was all weeds when you got it this is not posible!)
and how to get a lot of free stuff of people ( by beeing a prezenter on gardeners world ;D ::) ;D)
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sorry forgot to use the spell check :-[
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OK,this is where I upset people! WHY do so many people berate this programme?? Just watch it for what it is! Gardeners world is OK, it won't be the same as when Geoff Hamilton was presenter but then it is almost 30 years since he started as presenter of G-WORLD, don't get me wrong, I think he was fab too but he is sadly no longer with us and I think the current presenters are great. I think the production company HAS been listening to us, they have included the allotment bit and re-jigged the entire programme to give us a much better and watchable experience.
And if anyone else criticises 'Saint Carol' I will be most upset!!! ;D
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can someone tell me when its on so i can give it a go thanks, dont often get my hands on that remote control thingy!! >:(
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...I think the production company HAS been listening to us, they have included the allotment bit and re-jigged the entire programme to give us a much better and watchable experience.
I think that bit is so true. On here, people have been calling for more bits dedicated to veggie growing/allotments. It is the same on the beeb boards. Then we get it, and the same people (not all I grant you) moan about that too. There is no pleasing some people. And that, in different words, is more or less exactly what I posted about the moaning about GYO.
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Hear hear Gloster Womble!!! ( .... mmmm funny initials are GW... :o :o :o ;D ;D.) I stopped watching during the decking era and phased out Rachel de Thame (??? aargh) but the current lot are just fine and I've set Sky to record it.
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I missed it Friday, was away on the boat so can't comment on that episode. Have to catch it on BBCi.
I personally think the problem is most people on here know what they're doing. They've all been gardening and growing veg for years. So in effect we all have at least the same if not greater level of expertise as any BBC presenter, certainly as much practical experience.
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. They all know how they would do it, what does and what doesn't work, what to do and what not to do and when to do it. So the problem for most people is they've got to watch a bloody lot of gardening programs before they see something that they haven't seen or done before.
And when they see these things done a different way to what they'd do them then their only outlet is a forum like this.
I have to agree, Iv'e not learnt anything new for years by watching these programs but I still enjoy watching them...
Especially The Big Dig :)
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If you miss it, watch it on Iplayer.
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Well said, womble!
Did anyone else hear the bit after GQT this afternoon- even the experts (Peter Seabrook and a woman whose name I've forgotten) were disagreeing about whether the TV gardeners know their stuff or not!
No doubt someone will be along to tell me Peter doesn't know anything either! ;D
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As sensibly not having a TV I'm staying out of this!!
There's enough amusement in just going over the posts on here!
;D
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As sensibly not having a TV I'm staying out of this!!
There's enough amusement in just going over the posts on here!
;D
You are VERY sensible saddad, TV really does waste so much of our time.
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Peter Seabrook was bang on. Its pretty celebs we seem to want now not experts.
I think the time Carol Kline got really really excited and started squeeking about the flavour of baby veg was what did it for me. I've tasted baby veg, they're less tasty than grown up veg.
We need a new forward thinking gardening program with Bob Flowerdew at the helm and music thats not naff!
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And if anyone else criticises 'Saint Carol' I will be most upset!!! ;D
:-X
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i like the new music :D
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Sawfish,I rather like the new music ;D
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You can't be a saint till you're safely dead. Blow the celebrities; let's have Bob Flowerdew. At least he's famous for something more than being famous.