Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.

Started by Harry, January 14, 2023, 10:57:35

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Harry

Quote from: Vinlander on January 19, 2023, 16:40:16
A lot of good advice already in, but a couple of things caught my eye - both in the area of that helpful new? US? proverb "don't let 'Perfect' be the enemy of Good".
I absolutely get that. If I try to either do too large an area, or clear any area to perfection, then I'll miss any sowing/growing opportunities. So I'm definitely going for 'acceptable quantity at acceptable quality in acceptable time scales. If that means I only cultivate a modest area and still have some ongoing weeding to do, then I'm fine with that. I know how easy it would be to obsess but never finish anything useful.
Quote
1) Turning one or two compost bins is perfect - turning a mountain of compost is silly - it will do a good job on its own - & long before you will have time to use it. Growing stuff on the heaps is the best possible plan - in fact creating planters with pallets or builders' bags will allow you to plant carrots (especially red/purple ones) too high for the "fly". 
I like the idea of multiple modest compost heaps in pallet enclosures. The plot came with one rather large heap of rubbishness piled up against the perimeter fence. It's as overgrown as the rest of the plot. I'm inclined to start two or three new ones and feed the old one into them.
Quote
2) No perennial weed can withstand being dried out - once it's crispy-dry it's dead & double-dead (I've done the experiments) - then you can compost them with everything else.
That's good news. There's much dried out cane like weeds, many with seed heads that look quite dead. I was a bit concerned about those seeds being viable, but thinking about it, all the viable weed seeds probably already sowed themselves.
QuoteIf you have a lot then you need to find some metal grilles or mesh (or netting 'hammocks') to spread them out above the damp soil. Once you've done this they will dry out twice as fast (and rain just washes the soil off so they dry nearly as fast as in a drought). This doesn't only apply to dandelions & docks etc. it also applies to couch grass and bindweed - though both routinely go down a spade depth and bindweed needs to be followed wherever it goes deeper. Neither of the latter 2 buggers can be killed in water - it's a popular suggestion but it's 100% nonsense (not to mention the smell).
I think there are few modest patches of bindweed which I'm paying closer attention to. Very few docks or dandelions. There is some ivy ground cover. Fortunately the soil is light and sandy, so roots are not TOO hard to get out.
QuoteOne more thing - perennials can be weakened a lot by a year under black plastic - but it has to be 100% opaque. I made the mistake of using silvered (painted) tarp but when I held it up in summer it was only 90% opaque - it killed a lot of stuff in winter but by March, grass and even chickweed were flourishing under it. My temporary fix was to spread a mat of "safe" weeds to dry on it, a better solution is 'roof-tiling' it with whole opened newspapers held down with tree & branch prunings - surprisingly windproof & the tarp or plastic is key to stop weeds escaping through the gaps. The result also UV-proofs the plastic - it's (I hesitate to say it) Perfect and cheap (even foxes give up trying to dig through tarp).
Plastic sheets (sadly not proper black membrane) and masses of cardboard are in my plan. Especially cardboard, which i have a good supply of.

Thanks for your input.... Now if we could just have some nicer weather, please. Weeding in snow and mud is not my idea of fun.

Harry


ACE

Every new plot I have ever taken over has been grown in. Don't be fazed by it. My method is drag out the trusty asian hoe and chip the weeds out, raking all the rubbish to a long mound at the bottom of the plot. Then start digging a couple of yards a day chucking all the bigger roots on the mound. You then have a cultivated plot even if you are not planting, normal size plot takes 2 to 3 weeks doing a couple of hours each day before breakfast. Cover the mound in builders plastic that can be got free if you are a skip diver. Make a few holes for the dreaded courgettes. Then you can start the finer digging for planting. Move any plants that have been left  by the previous tenants to where you want them, the old spot  would have used up all the goodness where they were and rhubarb like its roots frosted, doing more than a couple of hours each day will just wear you out and early morning stint will stop all the natterers holding you up.

Beersmith

Quote from: ACE on January 23, 2023, 08:19:34
an early morning stint will stop all the natterers holding you up.

Some of the best advice may not be about growing!!
Not mad, just out to mulch!

Harry

Quote from: ACE on January 23, 2023, 08:19:34
My method is drag out the trusty asian hoe and chip the weeds out,
Thanks. It may make you chuckle that I googled Asian Hoe and got a youtube video "Different Types Of Thailand Hookers In Action"
:happy7: :toothy10: :toothy10: :toothy10:
I've ordered one. I hope the right type comes.
Quoteraking all the rubbish to a long mound at the bottom of the plot. Then start digging a couple of yards a day chucking all the bigger roots on the mound. You then have a cultivated plot even if you are not planting, normal size plot takes 2 to 3 weeks doing a couple of hours each day before breakfast. Cover the mound in builders plastic that can be got free if you are a skip diver. Make a few holes for the dreaded courgettes. Then you can start the finer digging for planting. Move any plants that have been left  by the previous tenants to where you want them, the old spot  would have used up all the goodness where they were and rhubarb like its roots frosted, doing more than a couple of hours each day will just wear you out and early morning stint will stop all the natterers holding you up.
Some great advice. I haven't yet had the resolve to attack it every day, or before breakfast. I need to pull my finger out.
Yes, I've been raking the easy stuff off. Fortunately not many big roots: All shallow so far
I keep seeing the courgette advice, so I'm inclined to germinate a few seedlings ready to go.

Paulh

Far too early for sowing courgettes - and most other things!

ACE

Quote from: Harry on January 24, 2023, 10:22:34


I've ordered one. I hope the right type comes.

Just remember it is the hoe that does the work, if you ache afterwards you are using it wrong

gray1720

Quote from: ACE on January 24, 2023, 15:48:53
Just remember it is the hoe that does the work, if you ache afterwards you are using it wrong

Steady on, old chap!
My garden is smaller than your Rome, but my pilum is harder than your sternum!

Plot22

Lots of advice on here for you Harry. I took on my plot in my mid to late fifties whilst I was still working full time. My plot is 34yd by 9yds and it had not been cultivated for at least 2 years, remains of an old greenhouse, glass everywhere. Nothing left that was worth saving. I filled skip after skip with rubbish let alone the weeds which I tried to compost after I had built my compost bins. My wife thought me mad for taking it on but when taking on a new plot you know what you are taking on its a case of take it or leave it. In year one I cleared it from one end to the other and set what I could. Not a great crop but it was a start and it only gets better. I cannot blame the committee for setting cultivation targets although the 50% after 3 months is a bit tight. I ran our site for a couple of years and its a thankless task too often people would take on an allotment and you would not see them after the first 3 months then you have all the hastle of getting rid of them.
You say that you are aiming to cultivate 20 to 25 square metres and cover some of the rest of the plot with whatever. If that's your target fair enough each to it's own but you are not going to set much in 25 square metres. One suggestion I have for you is buy an Indian type digging tool ( an Azada ). I bought one when I took my plot on and it certainly helped me clear it. When all said and done you cannot beat hand weeding you will not clear any patch completely after getting on for 20 years I still get loads of weeds. The main thing is don't get too down hearted Rome was not built in a day. Sign up to the major seed companies and then when they have seed clearance offers buy your seeds.

Harry

Quote from: Plot22 on January 27, 2023, 13:02:36
Lots of advice on here for you Harry. I took on my plot in my mid to late fifties whilst I was still working full time. My plot is 34yd by 9yds and it had not been cultivated for at least 2 years, remains of an old greenhouse, glass everywhere. Nothing left that was worth saving. I filled skip after skip with rubbish let alone the weeds which I tried to compost after I had built my compost bins. My wife thought me mad for taking it on but when taking on a new plot you know what you are taking on its a case of take it or leave it. In year one I cleared it from one end to the other and set what I could. Not a great crop but it was a start and it only gets better. I cannot blame the committee for setting cultivation targets although the 50% after 3 months is a bit tight. I ran our site for a couple of years and its a thankless task too often people would take on an allotment and you would not see them after the first 3 months then you have all the hastle of getting rid of them.
You say that you are aiming to cultivate 20 to 25 square metres and cover some of the rest of the plot with whatever. If that's your target fair enough each to it's own but you are not going to set much in 25 square metres. One suggestion I have for you is buy an Indian type digging tool ( an Azada ). I bought one when I took my plot on and it certainly helped me clear it. When all said and done you cannot beat hand weeding you will not clear any patch completely after getting on for 20 years I still get loads of weeds. The main thing is don't get too down hearted Rome was not built in a day. Sign up to the major seed companies and then when they have seed clearance offers buy your seeds.
Thank you.
I have a slightly oversized plot. Should be 75 sq m. but seems to be close to 90.
The cultivation targets are in the rules, but I doubt they are enforced. The site manager shrugged at every mention of the rules. He pointed out a couple of plots rented but untended and didn't seem to care.
I keep seeing the advice to get one of those Azadas, so I will invest in one. Knowing my own limitations, i just want to take it steady and show acceptable progress with a small area of max produce. It is daunting, but I won't let it dishearten me unless I have disasters.
Weeds are a worthwhile adversary. I won't begrudge them the odd victory :)

Deb P

I have an azada and a Canterbury fork. I use the Canterbury fork far more for clearing and renovating weedy areas on my plot, the using action is the same but it is easier to use and penetrates the ground better than an azada. Wear a hat when using it though or you will have loads of soil in your hair!
If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

ACE

Quote from: Deb P on January 28, 2023, 08:36:53
Wear a hat when using it though or you will have loads of soil in your hair!
Blimey! you are lifting that very high, mine never goes above waist high.

Deb P

I like to really whack the dreaded couch grass then lever it up, let's all the aggression out! 🙄🙄🙄
If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

chrisjadonohue@gmail.com

My advice is to look at your whole plot and prioritise:
1. Nasty weeds such as docks, stinging nettles, ground elder, brambles you don't want, giant plantain,
dandelion, creeping buttercup, bindeeed - get rid of these by digging out as best you can all over the plot
2. Get rid of or stack at the back of your plot broken glass (use gloves), rotten wood, old tyres, rusty metal, old carpet full of weeds, metal tins no longer holding water etc
3. Choose an area roughly 5 metres long across your plot and dig it to remove weeds.  I find it easier to
use a fork as it causes less damage.  Put the weeds either in a compost bin already on the plot or just
pile it up in a heap.  You can make a. Compost bin later.
4. Rake your soil until it looks beautifully fine and weedfree.
5. Then repeat 4,5 choosing the easiest part every time until the whole plot looks immaculate
6. Build a compost bin with 3 or 4 pallets wired together and put in all your weeds.
7. Sow your main crops in a greenhouse or windowsill and transplant to your plot.
8. Beetroot, carrots, parsnips, broad beans you can sow direct when the soil temperature is warm enough

Chris Donohue

Harry

#33
Quote from: chrisjadonohue@gmail.com on February 01, 2023, 10:32:47
My advice is to look at your whole plot and prioritise:
1. Nasty weeds such as docks, stinging nettles, ground elder, brambles you don't want, giant plantain,
dandelion, creeping buttercup, bindeeed - get rid of these by digging out as best you can all over the plot
2. Get rid of or stack at the back of your plot broken glass (use gloves), rotten wood, old tyres, rusty metal, old carpet full of weeds, metal tins no longer holding water etc
3. Choose an area roughly 5 metres long across your plot and dig it to remove weeds.  I find it easier to
use a fork as it causes less damage.  Put the weeds either in a compost bin already on the plot or just
pile it up in a heap.  You can make a. Compost bin later.
4. Rake your soil until it looks beautifully fine and weedfree.
5. Then repeat 4,5 choosing the easiest part every time until the whole plot looks immaculate
6. Build a compost bin with 3 or 4 pallets wired together and put in all your weeds.
7. Sow your main crops in a greenhouse or windowsill and transplant to your plot.
8. Beetroot, carrots, parsnips, broad beans you can sow direct when the soil temperature is warm enough

Chris Donohue
Thanks Chris, Great answers.

I'm lucky that there's very little rubbish on site, just a few bricks and buried carpet tiles. As I've said before, I'm unlikely to cultivate the whole site this season. I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good. "whole plot looks immaculate" is a big ask if I'm to grow food this year.

I plan to get 1/3 or so of the plot as good as possible and sown ASAP  and another 1/3 to follow in time for some later sowing. 1/3 will probably be a bit less than perfect :)

There's an existing composter comprising a good steel fence with a couple of chicken wire sides which I can augment with pallets. That's getting a bit full, so I'm thinking of a bulk bag self contained composter as well. Woody weeds I've just set aside for now.

There's a few bits of bramble gone wild and raspberry's that I hope to bear fruit. I'm working around them, with a big central area for new veg.
I'll be starting some seeds later this month. I hope to get some easy crops like chard, beetroots, peas beans, spuds, carrots and onions.

Unfortunately no green house yet, but I'l be building a big cloche and already have a small one.

Rake, Azuda and Fork for sure. I'll barely use a spade.

Harry

Following up on this... Some random thoughts... Just thinking out loud...

... As I battle on with a mix of overgrown and uncultivated areas, areas I've raked, areas I've tarped and areas I've treated with Glyphosphate, I thought maybe time to regroup and re-canvas opinions. Maybe my floundering will help newbies.

For the record, I'm no sort of purist, so I don't rule out weedkillers. I did use some old stock of tumbleweed to knock back half my area of weeds. I AM, however trying to be very frugal. No point spending a fortune for a few pounds worth of veg. But equally, I'm time poor, so I don't want to waste one moment of hard graft. I want to get max bang for my buck of spending and max effect from my hours of digging and weeding.

And before anyone mentions no dig, I'll say great, but where can I get many cubic metres of compost for no cost.

Random observations.
I have marestail and bindweed to contend with.... And some couch. My plot is divided into beds with carpet file paths between.

I've had some success with leaving ordinary blue tarps down. But this late into the year is not ideal. Ideally, I'd have covered the plot at the end of the last growing season, but i only just adopted it.

Old carpet cover is the old fashioned free way of suppressing weeds, but carpet is banned on the site... except what tiles are already there.

I'm currently a bit too tight to spend ~70p / sq m on Black weed control membrane. It's among the most cost effective ways I've discovered, but getting dearer and I'm resisting the expenditure.

Glyphosphate weedkiller was appealing to me, until I saw the price of it. HELL's teeth £10/Litre and that won't even kill my marestail.

I ruled out rotovating at day zero because of the marestail and bindweed.

I ruled out digging over with a spade, after I tried it and found that too spread those perennial weeds. Plus I'm lazy.

Some good progress weeding with just a fork and a rake, but it's hard work and I find it easy to miss patches as I'm digging. Soil I raked or disturbed keeps covering and obscuring areas that I haven't actually dug.

Now.... I have access to lots of cardboard. Not the thickest of stuff, but plentiful.

I've followed advice here and bought an Azuda (Asian hoe) Highly efficient and recommended!
I've also read all about no-dig, and though I LOVE the idea, I balk at buying the tonnes of compost needed to cover my site. Besides, if my soil is decent, then I'm inclined to grow in it.

So, this is where I'm at, so far. and I'm still learning.

FIRST for any area as yet uncultivated, roughly scrape off tall weeds top growth with a rake, just to get some sort of level. Take the rubbish offsite, lest it contains marestail.
Spread a tarp over the top and weigh it down with bricks. Cost negligible.

Embracing the Azada, for each growing area slice out a row of soil. Rake it, weed it. TRY to get most weed roots, but don't expect to get them all. To hell with digging deeper than a spade length. Do a bed sized patch.
Then rake some WELL rotted horse muck/compost (acquired almost free through Facebook marketplace)
Then I tread it and level it a bit and cover it with cardboard ! Cut some holes and slits and sow through the holes. Cost is still negligible. I popped some spuds and courgette seedlings in in the hope that they will grow quickly and dominate the light.

On to the next bed area.

I could be quite wrong and silly, but it strikes me that the card will suppress ongoing weeds almost enough, just as it would with no-dig, but without the cost of that 3" of compost. As the card gets ruined by rain, just replace it with strips of the same. I am considering covering the card with grass cuttings from my garden or whatever neutral mulch I can get for nothing (wood chippings?)
Some weeds do pop up through the sowing holes but attack them with a trowel or hoe.

I don't know if this is at all sound, but so far it's minimised expenditure and effort. Quite how long the cardboard barrier will last is the big unknown.

Incidentally, I lifted my carpet tile paths as I worked and weeded those areas too. LOTS of nasty weed roots were lurking there.
Some of my beds were boxed in with old rotten wood which might have been useful once, but as it rotted and got broke, I just removed the wood. Apart from demarcation, what was it actually adding by way of value? The beds were not particularly raised.



Paulh

My random thoughts:

If I found my new plot was mare's tail and bindweed, I'd give it up. You are a better person than me.

I started off when about 15 years ago I took on my plot (grassed over and unused for a few years) as an old school gardener. I dug (and even double dug) it and got out much of the main weed - couch grass. It's clay soil and I think that digging helps get it into a physical state in which you can effectively incorporate compost - humus - to open it up. Clay soils form a "pan" about a spit or two down which is a barrier that impedes movement of water and nutrients. Whether annual digging is beneficial on the improved soil I'm not so sure now. I'm looking more to cover, mulch, lightly fork, but I'm a way off that yet as a total approach.

That said, if you grow potatoes, you will be digging a part of your plot every few years when you lift the crop. A good opportunity to see what a large area of soil is like and apply improvers.

Cardboard is great. Break open a stout box, place it where you have weeds - even bindweed - and cover with (ideally) wood chippings. If the covering is too light, you will need bricks or such to hold it down. It will suppress growth for a few weeks, and when it rots then, you can easily weed out what comes through (dandelions mostly). I use it mainly on the permanent paths but also between bean rows, etc. You could certainly plant courgettes, squash etc through it. The cardboard lasts only one season but the wood chip works on.

Similarly, carpet or plastic sheet clears the area of vegetation and gives you the clear space to start from. Then keeping that clear is the issue.

I use other mulches of varying cost and greenness, but would benefit from obtaining some good heavy duty plastic sheeting to use over winter. When I ask other plot holders where they bought theirs, it's usually been a builder's skip! My neighbours are not so accommodating when engaged in construction works.

Green mulches - a friend is a strong advocate of these as a soil improver and preventing erosion over winter. You just dig them in - or even plant through them. I'm wondering if they would be my new weed ...

Finally, the hoe, strimmer and mower are your friend (but I am not as well acquainted with them as I should be).

My next job is clearing the nettles and dandelions out of my raspberry bed. It may be easiest to lift the raspberries too.


Harry

#36
Thanks PaulH for the helpful replies.

Quote from: Paulh on May 05, 2023, 23:22:13
My random thoughts:

If I found my new plot was mare's tail and bindweed, I'd give it up. You are a better person than me.
Thanks. I considered surrender, but every plot on the site has the same combo to some extent and yet others manage to grow good crops. I don't expect to eradicate them, but my crops will have to coexist and compete.
QuoteI started off when about 15 years ago...
I dug (and even double dug) it...  It's clay soil and I think that digging helps... Whether annual digging is beneficial on the improved soil I'm not so sure now. I'm looking more to cover, mulch, lightly fork, but I'm a way off that yet as a total approach.
Crikey: 15 years of digging clay! Much kudos to you. I would surrender if I thought I was going to battle like that. Apart from the weeds my soil looks like excellent loam. Dead easy to fork through and the azada makes light work.I aspire to only single dig enough to do SOME weeding and then enough to get my crop out (if and when)
QuoteThat said, if you grow potatoes, you will be digging a part of your plot every few years when you lift the crop. A good opportunity to see what a large area of soil is like and apply improvers.
Indeed. Digging to sow those gave me a fair idea. Even a spade and a half down, I was still in good loam with no stones or rubble.
QuoteCardboard is great. Break open a stout box, place it where you have weeds - even bindweed - and cover with (ideally) wood chippings. If the covering is too light, you will need bricks or such to hold it down. It will suppress growth for a few weeks, and when it rots then, you can easily weed out what comes through (dandelions mostly). I use it mainly on the permanent paths but also between bean rows, etc. You could certainly plant courgettes, squash etc through it. The cardboard lasts only one season but the wood chip works on.
Thanks for confirming I'm on the right track.
QuoteSimilarly, carpet or plastic sheet clears the area of vegetation and gives you the clear space to start from. Then keeping that clear is the issue.
If I'd had the plot before Jan, I'd have had more success with tarps, but it definitely helps and lots cheaper than weedkiller.
QuoteI use other mulches of varying cost and greenness, but would benefit from obtaining some good heavy duty plastic sheeting to use over winter. When I ask other plot holders where they bought theirs, it's usually been a builder's skip! My neighbours are not so accommodating when engaged in construction works.
I love skip diving, but not yet found any of that membrane. But I do have some huge tarps from a project. Probably let some light through, but nothing's perfect
QuoteGreen mulches - a friend is a strong advocate of these as a soil improver and preventing erosion over winter. You just dig them in - or even plant through them. I'm wondering if they would be my new weed ...
I'm only just picking up the idea of green mulches (clippings) And I share that concern. Also harbouring slugs and snails and other critters.
QuoteFinally, the hoe, strimmer and mower are your friend (but I am not as well acquainted with them as I should be).
I've never used a hoe before and I don't think I have the technique. it just seems to move the weeds, not chop them. No electric mains for strimming and nothing flat enough for mowing.
QuoteMy next job is clearing the nettles and dandelions out of my raspberry bed. It may be easiest to lift the raspberries too.
I have a patch of raspberries which will have to fend for themselves for a while.

gray1720

Harry, if you struggle with a hoe look for a Dutch hoe. No, not the sort of thing the Dutch are getting a bit peeved with young British tourists seeking , but a garden tool with a much easier mode of use than a draw hoe.
My garden is smaller than your Rome, but my pilum is harder than your sternum!

Deb P

You mention a lot of ground prep but have you been planting up the cleared areas yet? Getting potatoes in and growing and the foliage will suppress the weeds for you, any nasties you miss you can dig out at harvest.
Also I'd recommend getting your hands on any paving slabs you can on Freecycle or Marketplace, lay them on old compost bags or similar to make a semi permanent path or two, then you won't spend time clearing  paths as well as beds!
If you have anywhere  at home to raise seedling you can give them a head start before planting out which will reduce your failure rate compared with sowing direct. Big leaved plants like courgettes and squash will also naturally suppress weeds once they get going, you can even plant them through cardboard that will help even more to knock the weeds back.
You will have to learn to live with some weeds as they grow back from the smallest bit of root left in....like most people I've spent years digging out couch on my plot but the bindweed is now knocked back enough just one bed suffers with it but I keep it planted up and the crops still grow ok!
If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

Harry

Quote from: Deb P on May 09, 2023, 09:15:45
You mention a lot of ground prep but have you been planting up the cleared areas yet? Getting potatoes in and growing and the foliage will suppress the weeds for you, any nasties you miss you can dig out at harvest.
Yes. Sorry, I've been sowing. My plot is about half a dozen beds and I ensured to sow something immediately after clearing half or a whole one. That's part of my distress: I thought I'd cleared a bed pretty well before I'd heard of marestail. Sowed spuds and carrots and onions and now have these blasted marestails springing up everywhere between them. My carrots havent even germinated and peas/beand are getting disturbed as I try to remove the shoots. Rather p155ed me off. Plus I may have consigned some marestail to my newly created heap in it's formative days. :(
QuoteAlso I'd recommend getting your hands on any paving slabs you can on Freecycle or Marketplace, lay them on old compost bags or similar to make a semi permanent path or two, then you won't spend time clearing  paths as well as beds!
Good plan, but there are many metres of carpet tile paths and it would take a lot of slabs.
QuoteIf you have anywhere  at home to raise seedling you can give them a head start before planting out which will reduce your failure rate compared with sowing direct. Big leaved plants like courgettes and squash will also naturally suppress weeds once they get going, you can even plant them through cardboard that will help even more to knock the weeds back.
All of that is now the core of my plan, especially the sowing through card.
QuoteYou will have to learn to live with some weeds as they grow back from the smallest bit of root left in....like most people I've spent years digging out couch on my plot but the bindweed is now knocked back enough just one bed suffers with it but I keep it planted up and the crops still grow ok!
Crops growing ok will be the measure of 'success' regardless of what weeds survive. It looks a bit messy just yet where I've stomped over my beds pulling roots. Disheartened. I'm taking to a dutch hoe next.
But as I walk around the site, i see other plots, well tended and with neat rows of veg's in beautifully tended soil.... and there, too I see little marestail trees up to 6" tall. I figure if those diligent tenants have the problem, I'm not to feel too bad. Also, While others have it, I'll always have it come back.
A plot adjoining mine is massively overgrown with nothing but weeds. I may grumble to the committee about that.

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