Author Topic: Any help for two questions ?  (Read 649 times)

brownthumb2

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Any help for two questions ?
« on: November 23, 2019, 16:53:59 »
 firstly  i,am on another blog though face book   that's ran by a friend of a well known no digger  (trying to avoid naming )  I mentioned to another blogger that I put fresh horse manure direct on my beds to save double handling it I only put it on the ones which needs it   in the winter. By planting time its all gone roughly 4 months  I was told in no certain tones its wrong to do it that way which ive done for many years  but that it needs putting in a heap to rot down which takes longer to do about 9 months plus its double handling it Why is it so wrong to  put fresh directly on the empty beds it was mentioned about seepage but surely the seepage would be greater from a heap and make that piece of ground unuseable  for a period of time   ? secondly I cover my no dig  beds with a layer of  compost but another allotmenteer said I wouldn't be able to plant seeds in it this year  why not   ? it is compost from a green waste company  and while well rotted its course but if I put a drill of fine compost to sow the seeds in,surely it  should be  ok ?

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Any help for two questions ?
« on: November 23, 2019, 16:53:59 »

Vinlander

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2019, 17:49:02 »
Well firstly, to really only put it on the beds that need it you need to know what plants like it - there is a relatively small range of plants that can cope with what is effectively 3 years worth of nitrogen that's only had a few months to tone itself down. That's basically the squash family and runner beans - I'm not interested in potatoes so you'll need someone else's opinion on those.

Now what the 3 or 4 bed rotation means is that you put 3 years worth of well rotted manure on. If you are only trying to sort out next year and you have a good feel for how much less that will be then the problem is only 30% of what it was, and quite a few more families (eg tomatoes) will be OK with it - but definitely none of the plants from the 3rd/4th rotation.

Secondly, you are doing your friend a disservice by thinking that his manure heap will seep as much as your manure out on the beds - manure heaps are supposed to be covered so they don't lose too much as seepage. If the stuff is very dry then most people will let (or make) it get a bit damp but cover it immediately afterwards.

Now if you've managed to get seeds to make strong seedlings on your method then fine, and everyone else needs to rethink. But it depends on how much rain comes over winter. As you say your compost won't bother the seeds, but it depends on how much harsh ammonia and nitrate is in the manure layer when they get to it - if it's strong then they might get a shock & stop. Again, the plants that can stand a lot of manure tend to have seeds which can cope better too.

If you put some fresh manure in a bucket and put 10-15 times as much water into it (double that for fresh bird manure), then the "tea" won't 'burn' anything and neither will the leftovers. It turns problematic fresh manure into usable liquid feed and usable soil conditioner - I often do this if I need fertiliser in summer but the only thing available is fresh manure.

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

Paulh

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2019, 21:09:14 »
If you've done it for years and it works, why worry? I guess you are putting the horse manure on in the autumn, letting it get soaked through over winter and then digging it in. I can't see that would be a problem if applied in moderation, for the crops that like it.

On the sowing in compost (not manure) question, I don't understand the idea that you can't sow in it. If not then, when? Though it depends on the quality of the compost. With my homemade compost, I mostly get weeds!

BarriedaleNick

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2019, 10:04:12 »
One reason I don't add fresh horse manure on my beds is that it can contain a lot of seeds which pass right through the horse.  One chap on my plot used some fresh stuff to cover all his spuds and he ended up with two lovely strips of grass down his plot.  It can of course also contain herbicides and if you are affected then it has probably already been washed into your topsoil.
I wouldn't worry too much though if it has been working for you and you have a good supply of "clean" manure.
As to planting in compost - the general rule is not to use strong compost for sowing seeds as it is too "strong" (has too many nutrients) which can damage tender roots or cause quick leggy growth which can be undesirable.  It can also be a bit claggy and not have the right drainage.  This is why propriety seed composts have low nutrient levels and have added grit, perlite or even sand added.

However again if it is working for you then no worries and a lot of modern composts esp some of the green waste stuff has dubious nutrient levels.  I rarely plant direct into beds as I grow everything in modules before it goes out so it isn't an issue..

lezelle

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2019, 14:38:00 »
Hi Ya, I wouldn't having suffered and still suffering with weeds. Interesting though and you must be on hungry ground. If it orks for you then carry on and never mind anyone else. Good luck

brownthumb2

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2019, 17:35:29 »
Thanks every one  for the input  I should have said  a third of the plots get manured  as in a three crop rotation and now doing non dig  so adding the compost  this year   May be sowing in modules is the way to go with what ever iam able too , Have anyone grown carrots successfully from modules as I seen some for sale back in the spring in a garden centre

BarriedaleNick

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2019, 08:37:22 »
Carrots are one of the things I do sow direct - that and parsnips.  I guess it will work and I know some people swear by starting them off in toilet rolls.

saddad

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2019, 08:41:22 »
Only the round rooted ones are really worth sowing in modules.. carrots, parsnips, any long rooted "root crops" don't transplant. I don't know how garden centres get away with it.

cudsey

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2019, 17:52:10 »
I used to put loo rolls into the ground for carrots and parsnips but I now sow them directly into the ground and it seems to be working fine
Barnsley S Yorks

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2019, 21:00:21 »
In general terms, once you have started the no-dig method, you are likely to need to add only 25-40mm of compost per season. I use well rotted (2 year) manure and /or horse bedding (sawdust+droppings), composted at least 1 year. Heaps are uncovered , some 'run-off' occurs but only reaches the surrounding (now lush!) grassland. After 2 years, the brandlings (tiger worms ) have pretty much retreated, and good enough compost heaps will have lost their woodlice. (Compost is any matured, decayed material, of any origin)
 I doubt that you could spread fresh manure that thinly. Compost, when dryish, can be spread thinly.
My, now 4 year old, no dig beds will happily allow direct seeding of most crops, although those that suit module raising, tend to be established for transplanting. If you fear that the compost layer will be too dry for germination, just draw out the row, and replace once the seedlings show.
I agree regarding root crops, I may sometimes plant chard and beet into modules, but the best crops , and carrots,parsnips, radish ,spinach,rocket etc are directly sown
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galina

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2019, 08:39:00 »
i,am on another blog though face book   that's ran by a friend of a well known no digger  (trying to avoid naming ) 

As you are not advertising for your own profit or sending unsolicited and unwanted spam,  I do not think you need avoid naming any gardening guru.  This could be helpful for others that are considering the no dig path and who might want to look into it further.  :wave:

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Any help for two questions ?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2019, 13:54:09 »
i,am on another blog though face book   that's ran by a friend of a well known no digger  (trying to avoid naming ) 

As you are not advertising for your own profit or sending unsolicited and unwanted spam,  I do not think you need avoid naming any gardening guru.  This could be helpful for others that are considering the no dig path and who might want to look into it further.  :wave:
First guess:
www.facebook.com/pages/category/Author/Stephanie-Hafferty-1123482081186711/
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

 

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