Topic: Pruning advice

[davholla]

I have 6 small apple trees.
2 cordons - never pruned in 4 years
2 M26 badly pruned last year one of which a D'Arcy Spice has been very disappointing the other a family tree not bad.
2 M27 in pots.

Here are pictures of them all.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14586608@N08/sets/72157634879761362/

I want more fruit and because of lack of space for them not to grow too much.
Any advice?

[ed dibbles]

Apples need to be pruned every year which I suggest is the main reason you are not getting much fruit. An apple tree over run with rampant growth is never going to produce much fruit.

Proper pruning stops the trees natural tendency to grow long whippy unproductive stems encouraging it to make fruit buds instead. Once a tree has been neglected it will take at least  a couple of years to bring it back into full productivity.

But it can be done and it's not too late to start. Now is actually a very good time to prune since the majority of this years growth has already taken place. (You can also do it in the winter when it will be easier to see what you are doing.)

Apple trees, particularly cordons and those on dwarfing rootstocks need to be spur pruned. This means taking all this years long growth back to about 3 buds (2-4 inches). I know this sounds drastic, even frightening for novice pruners who think they many kill the tree but it will not.

Any existing fruit buds that are on short stems (spurs) mustn't be pruned off.

Pruning will force the tree to begin making fruit buds rather than non fruiting stems. As I say it may take more than one season to achieve full crops but you could see an improvement as early as next year. Something you will not do if you leave them unpruned for another year.

[ed dibbles]

Having looked again at your photos. I'd say the tree(s) in the bottom four photos is getting there. A little winter spur pruning will soon pay dividends.

The top photos, that I take to be the cordons really need to be pruned along the lines I described above. It looks like they are having far too good a time of it, hence no fruit, and need taming.

With secateurs in hand you can at last stop growing leaves and begin growing some fruit!

[davholla]

Apples need to be pruned every year which I suggest is the main reason you are not getting much fruit. An apple tree over run with rampant growth is never going to produce much fruit.

Proper pruning stops the trees natural tendency to grow long whippy unproductive stems encouraging it to make fruit buds instead. Once a tree has been neglected it will take at least  a couple of years to bring it back into full productivity.

But it can be done and it's not too late to start. Now is actually a very good time to prune since the majority of this years growth has already taken place. (You can also do it in the winter when it will be easier to see what you are doing.)

Apple trees, particularly cordons and those on dwarfing rootstocks need to be spur pruned. This means taking all this years long growth back to about 3 buds (2-4 inches). I know this sounds drastic, even frightening for novice pruners who think they many kill the tree but it will not.

Any existing fruit buds that are on short stems (spurs) mustn't be pruned off.

Pruning will force the tree to begin making fruit buds rather than non fruiting stems. As I say it may take more than one season to achieve full crops but you could see an improvement as early as next year. Something you will not do if you leave them unpruned for another year.

1) Is winter or summer prunning best?  (I  was planning to do it this weekend).  (This "Any existing fruit buds that are on short stems (spurs) mustn't be pruned off." makes me think that summer is better)
2) How can I tell which is this years growth (as opposed to last year).
3)I might try to - for interest only - root them - any advice?

[ed dibbles]

Q1 - I always prune in winter but many people advise pruning apples at exactly this time so if you are planning to do it this weekend then that will be fine. One benefit of doing it now is the likelihood of new fruit buds developing is slightly higher.

The buds on the long growths made this year will be longish, thin growth buds whereas the fruit buds on the short stumpy stems are fat and round. If you look at the apples you do have you will notice they are growing on short growths close to the main branch. These are the fruiting spurs.

Q2 - By now this years stems will still be pliable and a fresh nut brown colour. Branches older than this are more generally a greyish colour. The new growth should also have leaves right the way up the stem which the older branches won't have.

One thing I do advise is that even if some of the older branches are badly aligned or crossing other branches don't be tempted to cut these older branches out. All that will achieve is more strong sappy growth next year - exactly what you don't want.

Concentrate on reducing the long whippy new growth to three bud stumps this year. Awkwardly placed branches can be dealt with once the trees are fruiting properly.

Q3 - Your trees have been grafted onto rootstocks to keep the trees at a manageable size and to bring them into fruit at an early stage. While you may be successful in rooting a cutting you will end up with a plant that will probably grow into a monster (25ft say) and take many years to begin fruiting.

I know we are talking about apples but the saying "plant pears for your heirs" gives you the gist.

[ed dibbles]

In your first photo you can clearly see the brown stemmed new growth and the grey stemmed older growth. 

[davholla]

I pruned one branch, does this look correct to you?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14586608@N08/sets/72157634906840908/

I apologize for the picture quality but my memory card failed after I did this.

[ed dibbles]

Good news in the middle picture I can see some fruit buds forming They are in the middle of the whorled leaves along the bottom of the branch.

There is a fat bud forming in the middle of the whorl. The first long stem in the foreground has big leaves but very small growth buds. This need to be pruned off completely so only the latent fruit bud with its whorl of leaves remain.

Take a look at the photo towards the middle of this page to see the whorl of leaves and the potential fruit bud.

http://www.theenglishappleman.com/journal_120824.asp

Next spring the fruit bud develops into a flowering cluster as in the photo at the bottom of this page. Notice again the whorl of leaves.

http://thedemogarden.org/tag/fruit/page/7/

All you need to do is to prune those long shoots off down to the whorls of fruit buds. If a shoot has no fruit bud leaf cluster at its base then prune down to the same general area.

I would gently suggest the bit you trimmed off was insufficient

[davholla]

Good news in the middle picture I can see some fruit buds forming They are in the middle of the whorled leaves along the bottom of the branch.

Do you mean IMG_6375?

I would gently suggest the bit you trimmed off was insufficient

I thought that it wasn't enough but I thought that if you said that was wrong I could do more but I couldn't do less later

[ed dibbles]

The neighbour allotment holder has a small (around 6 feet) apple tree on his plot that is absolute laden with fruit every year. He has very few long growths to prune back every year because the tree is loaded with fruit buds. (fruit buds don't make long growths).

It always seems the tree is making much more fruit than leaves to support the crop. But there are obviously sufficient leaves in the whorls of leaves around each fruit cluster along with the small amount of extension growth to make for a very happy tree and an equally happy allotmenteer.

[davholla]

The neighbour allotment holder has a small (around 6 feet) apple tree on his plot that is absolute laden with fruit every year. He has very few long growths to prune back every year because the tree is loaded with fruit buds. (fruit buds don't make long growths).

It always seems the tree is making much more fruit than leaves to support the crop. But there are obviously sufficient leaves in the whorls of leaves around each fruit cluster along with the small amount of extension growth to make for a very happy tree and an equally happy allotmenteer.

If I have the courage to follow your advice maybe I will have the same in the future.

[ed dibbles]

Looking again at your photos and again at the shoot closest to the camera (yes#6375) I can see where the greyer older wood joins this years new wood. This coincides with clusters of dense foliage on the greyer wood giving way to large alternately placed leaves that are well spaced out as we travel up the stem.

The place to prune is to the second possibly third leaf of the spaced out leaves. You are then left with a well stocked collection of fruit buds and potential fruit buds left on the greyer wood with only a stub of new wood remaining.

[davholla]

Sorry one last question even if the new growth branch is this long should I prune to 3 shoots/buds?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14586608@N08/9437003250/

[ed dibbles]

mmm a tricky one, sometimes you have to go with what feels right under the general guidelines.

If it were me pruning that shoot I would cut to the first cluster of leaves after the bend with the shoot coming off at the bend down to three leaves. So you end up with two places where fruit buds could develop on that branch.

It sounds like you are doing fine in taking off as much of the new growth as is feasible. Believe me do the same thing next year and you will be gathering sack loads of tasty apples. 

[ed dibbles]

Forgot to mention that the shoot growing from the back of the bend is a good illustration of where these new growths should be pruned to.

Three leaves from where it joins the branch looks to be about three inches or so where luckily there is a well placed bud. That is how hard these new shoots need to be pruned.

The shoots in the background seem much more straightforward.

[davholla]

Thanks I won't have time tonight but tomorrow God willing I will do this correctly.