Topic: Written warning letter please help

[Unwashed]

Can I also ask you guys what you think of this rule?

Rule 26 - From 2012 all plots will be leased on a 6 monthly period.

What happens to our veg if it takes longer than the 6 months to mature and they decide not to renew the lease for no particular reason.

We assumed that the 1 year lease would be pretty standard due to growing seasons.

tony

No particular reason why plots shouldn't be let on 6-months periodic tenancies as the only practical difference is that you'd have to pay half-yearly rent.  Section 1 Allotments Act 1922 (as ammended Section 10 Allotments Act 1950) gives you a statutory 12 months minimum notice period, though maybe your landlord doesn't know that.  Note that a periodic tenancy automatically renews and must be ended by one of you serving on the other a notice to quit.

It's a bit more complicated if the plot isn't explicitly let on a periodic tenancy, but let's gloss over that.

However, if the landlord has written this into a rule there's a good chance he hasn't got a clue what's what so he's unlikely to terminate your existing annual periodic tenancy anyways.

[Unwashed]

Rule 26 - From 2012 all plots will be leased on a 6 monthly period.

What happens to our veg if it takes longer than the 6 months to mature and they decide not to renew the lease for no particular reason.

We assumed that the 1 year lease would be pretty standard due to growing seasons.

Annual periodic tenancies are pretty much all you'll find, though some farmers let plots for 11 months and kick you off each year, though that's a bit different.

There's no particular reason why a plot shouldn't be let on a six month periodic tenancy as the only difference would be that you'd have to pay a half-yearly rent twice a year.  Section 1 Allotments Act 1922 (as ammended by Section 10 Allotments Act 1950) guarantees you a statutory minimum 12 months notice to quit and letting the plot on a six month periodic tenancy doesn't change that - you still have a right to 12 months notice to quit even if the tenancy agreement explicitly says otherwise.

[Unwashed]

Sorry Tony, can you clarify about these rules?  Is it just a list of things pinned on the notice board?

[tony69]

Hi yes mate the rules are just three sheets of laminated paper pinned to the shed wall nothing more nothing less.

I must stress all i want is to enjoy the piece and my veg ive never been a big gardener but i just love the allotment.
I really just dont want to be pushed around so feel if i knew my rights they would leave me alone so i could go back to that.

I've read lots of posts on here and although there seems to be buckets of rules it does seem there followed with a shovel full of tough too.

I really wish to do this right and keep my cool with this person so your help is really appreciated

thanks Tony.

[Digeroo]

I think I would tiake a photo of the rules with a hi res camera so I could print them off and keep a record of them so that they cannot suddenly introduce extra ones.

I would also try and hunt in packs so arrange with other plot holders to make sure people are supported in case of hassle.   

I think your experiences show how important it is to have a good management system whether it is local authority, committee, famer or other landlord.  Veggie growing should  be a hassle free experience. 
 
Do the land registry have details of who owns the land?   Most of it is online now.

[tony69]

 hi there i have taken a pic of the rules with my phone it has a good camera on it.

the land is still registered on our council allotment site but i will know for sure when we talk to the allotment officer.

one of the rules state that no one can edge the paths of there plot as this will cause problems when they mow them , fair point and it makes sence.
the only problem i can see is the plot holder next to me spent 3 weeks edging and building up his plot like steps ashis plot is quite steep and i wonder whyhe didnt mention it before the hard work and money went into it.
to me it feels as though its been handled all wrong

thanks tony 

[Robert_Brenchley]

I should see your local councillor. They can pull strings and make sure the bureaucrats take you seriously.

[tony69]

Hi All,

Just an update, my wife spoke to the counmcil allotments manager today and he said anyone can elect themselves a committee without informing anyone else so we didn't have to vote this secretary in and they didn't have to tell us about any rules but he's sure they will when they have sorted them out. We explained the whole of the problem and he said as far as the council is concerned we have a committee and should take it up with them, he wasn't really interested except to say that the council would not get involved as we have an association now and although there is an allotments act there are no hard and fast rules.

He agreed that both parties should have behaved more responsibly but said we should have just took onboard the ravings of the secretary and learn to get on with everyone. We explained we already do get on with everyone but can't get up there every night just every other night and he said we should make more effort to go up and to attend meetings then we would have had a say. My wife said What Meeting ther has't been one and he said well maybe not everyone was invited. Our only course of action is basically to beg forgiveness of the secretary for shouting at him and learn to work as a team.

Wow and we have to pay over a thousand pounds to this council. My wife asked him if he thought it was fair for the council to send us a non payment letter threatening court just incase we dont pay our council tax in 3 years time and he said well if the council could get away with that then he's sure they would, thats life.

I'm struck dumb.
I can see veggies coming from Morrisons next year.
Thanks to all
Tony & Karen

[Digeroo]

There surely must be a due process for electing committee, if anyone can be a committee what happens if someone sets up another rival one.   

I would suggest clarifying the details from the council allotment officer in writing. 

[BarriedaleNick]

Tony - sounds like a load of thingy to me.
However if you think you can live with the little Hitler on the site then I'd give it ago - the plot can deliver so much pleasure but I guess you have to weigh it against an aggro you may get.
I am the sec of our plot and sometimes people shout at me or each other - I just try to be as mellow as possible and smile at them like the idiot I am - they soon seem to tire of the dramatics. 
You never know this may all blow over and you could have great productive plot - don't jack it in because of one or two over zealous loons.

 

[tony69]

Hi all,
I did ask if the council allotment manager really mean't to say that anyone can start a commitee and he said yes. So I said so does that mean me and my neighbour and the bloke across the path can start our own committee and he said technically yes but it would be seen as antagonistic to the existing committee. YOU DON'T SAY, ha ha. Typical politicians say one thing, mean another and do something entirely different. Talk about a jobsworth.

Tony and I have decided that we are going to go about our business and completely ignore the moron. When the treasurer gets back from hols on Saturday we will ask him to point us in the right direction if he thinks we may be contravening some whim of the Secretarys, thinking if we don't speak to him we can't possibly do anything wrong. Or not, watch this space!!

We still think it's a bit of a poor show when one man can scream and shout at another and you are not allowed to scream and shout back but if he wants to behave like a child and he has nothing more important in his life then so be it we hope it makes him happy. And if the Chairman wishes to lie in his bed we hope he gets the lumpy bit.

Thank you to everyone for all the sympathy, empathy, sheer disbelief and good old common sense. You are diamonds.

Regards karen & tony

[pigeonseed]

Very peculiar, I can't say I like that - I think anyone should be able to join the allotment association, and any member should be able to vote in elections of the committee. It's bizarre to think anyone can announce they're a committee.  ::)

I did ask if the council allotment manager really mean't to say that anyone can start a commitee and he said yes. So I said so does that mean me and my neighbour and the bloke across the path can start our own committee and he said technically yes but it would be seen as antagonistic to the existing committee. YOU DON'T SAY, ha ha. Typical politicians say one thing, mean another and do something entirely different. Talk about a jobsworth.

If this was a council official, employed by the council to manage allotments among other things, then he or she's not a politician. They might just really need a quiet life and it's selfish, but that's perhaps why they're pushing it all back onto you.

As Robert recommends, you could try talking to either your local councillor or the one who is responsible for allotments, if one has special responsibility. They might like to help you, because showing they've done stuff helps them get elected next time.

But hopefully you won't need to do anything else - if it all quietens down.  :-\

[Jeannine]

As I said earlier, just keep your head down, focus on your goal and stay with the plot,,he will calm down after the novelty wears off, be very careful you don`t make a small problem in a big one..

Enjoy your plot and your veggies, if he wants to run around like a man with one foot nailed to the floor, let him get on with it..it is his problem..he will burn out.

XX Jeannine

[tony69]

Hi folks just a quick message

Just to say our treasurer has returned from holiday today and been to see me.

To say hes not a happy bunny would be tame, he cant belive whats gone off while he's been away and how the chairman has behaved .

he asked if the secretary got a letter to and was shocked to hear just it was just me that got one.
As we were both shouting we should both have had a letter if for nothing more than to look fair.

The treasurer was on site at the time and also told the chair it wasnt me that started it so watch this space people i may get a fair hearing after all.

Ive always said he was a nice guy, he just wants it to be a nice place to garden and relax which is what its all about isn't it folks  :D :D

Thanks tony

[jules2]

We have the opposite problem we were asked by the council to form an association and when we did they refused to recognise it!

We involve everybody, have a website and any member can come to any committee meeting plus we have an AGM and annual accounts are produced.

As is often the case in life one strong character can completely dominate a club or association and its quite surprising how often people accept it.

If I were you I'd chase the council up just in case the current crew refuse to renew your tenancy.  Go to your local Councillor not an employee.

Explain you are on council land but you are forced to pay money to someone you didn't elect who presumably won't have an AGM or produce accounts, what if they apply for grant and pocket the money?

What if he does not pass your money onto the council

[busy_lizzie]

I was amazed to hear about all the trouble you have been having Tony69. We still live in a democracy and the proper way to form a committee is for the members to legally elect one at an AGM in which all members have been invited. This should occur yearly with a proper agenda, a copy of the accounts and any other business that needs to be discussed and voted on. No one can just make up their own rules as they go along without consulting plotholders. It does seem like a dictatorship and the council person who gave his views was entirely wrong in them. To be honest I wouldn't play dumb, I would question the legality of this self elected committee, and get together with other plotholders to make a big stink about it. You all have your rights and should stand up for them. Good luck in righting this wrong. Best wishes, busy_lizzie   

[shirlton]

I would say to get on with tending your allotment and if you feel that you are not getting the pleasure out of it that you once were then pack up and go somewhere else. Life is too short to waste time worrying about people who take your peace away.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Trouble with that is, it leaves the little hitlers free to get on with their hitlering at other peoples' expense.

[kt.]

As allotment supervisor on our site, I do have authority of the council to enter any allotment on site.  If I need to go onto a plot I always arrange to meet the plot holder at their plot.  95% of issues / complaints I receive about different plots are rectified amicably with a face to face meeting with the tenant.  Minutes of the face to face are kept and archived as a formality and usually do not have to be referred to again. 

All plot holders should of had the opportunity to vote on any committee and all plot holders should of had the opportunity to stand for committee positions.  If the committee formed without other plotholders knowing then it is not really valid and you could say that you would like to stand as a candidate for one of the positions.

[Unwashed]

As allotment supervisor on our site, I do have authority of the council to enter any allotment on site.  If I need to go onto a plot I always arrange to meet the plot holder at their plot.  95% of issues / complaints I receive about different plots are rectified amicably with a face to face meeting with the tenant.  Minutes of the face to face are kept and archived as a formality and usually do not have to be referred to again. 

The problem with this is that the Council does not have the authority to go onto let plots, so it can't legitimately authorise you to do something it can't do.  In a nut shell this is what the Council has let to the tenant and what the tenant pays rent for - exclusive posession.  Of course if you're arranging to meet the tenants then that's quite different and a top-class service, and in any event I very much doubt that you'd go walking about on their beds anyways.