Topic: New allotment, how to start ?

[mentallot]

Hi all,

300 square yards of virgin land - the allotments area expanded to include a neighbouring field. Weedwise not too bad, just a lot of field grass !

Any thoughts on the best way forward ? Manual digging and weeding isn't an option this time, and I'd like to get moving sharpish. I've been advised to weedkill then rotovate before doing anything else but keen to get advice from those more knowledgable  :)

Many thanks

[Tee Gee]

Hi Derek

Welcome to A4A

As you will appreciate this question is asked quite a lot so the 'gang' here on A4A have placed a lot of the information that you may need in the wiki tab above ( although I don't think it is working just at the moment) so in the mean time; this link might answer a few of your questions.

http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Allotments/01-Introduction.htm

Follow the related links as well.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Weedkiller tends to kill the less resistant species, and do no more than knock back the tougher stuff. If you rotovate it, you chop up all the roots, and the last state of that plot can be worse than the first. I'd suggest either lasagne beds - basically thick cardboard to smother the weeds, covered with a few inches of mulch to grow a crop in - black plastic and steady digging, or black plastic and crops planted through holes.

[BarriedaleNick]

Trouble is that at the mo most non-annual weeds have yet to show themselves so

1 - Weedkillers are not effective
2 - Rotavating will chop up roots etc as mentioned

In a few months you could end up with a field of weeds..

Of course if it is really just grass then you might get away with it but even then you'll be using a hell of a lot of weedkiller!

I would dig what you can and cover the rest as Robert above has suggested

[cornykev]

Strim the grass and compost
Cover the ground
Skim the top layer of grass off a small area with a spade and stack these clumps upsidedown
Dig out the roots
Keep uncovering as u go and repeat
As said a rotavater will make it ten times worse in the long run
 :)

[euronerd]

Something to keep at the back of your mind is leaving enough space for such things as a greenhouse, shed, compost bin etc in the future.

Geoff.

[Normylass]

DH and I took on an allotment 3 years ago that hadn't been touched for a long time 15 years at least. We debated which route to take and you will firmly find two camps......weedkiller and rotate or cover and dig out them weeds. We took the second options which was right for us, took over a year and in the process dug up/cleared.....  a whole bike which was spread about the plot, chicken bones! glass galore, part of a horse jaw! a mattress which had been burnt, Rotting piles of wood, cement oh and a shower base complete with the shower unit! Lots of other stuff too.
It was well worth the effort, we now have a great space, the weeds don't ever go away whichever route you take its like the tide you just keep going to hold them back .....hoe....hoe....hoe...
I love the fact that when I bring food home to eat it has no chemicals in and for me that's a big thing, nothing tastes better than something you have grown yourself.
I'm sure you will get many replies, I say do whatever makes you happy. An allotment is a long term investment, not a quick thing, after all some of your vegetable will take several months to grow.

Most of all enjoy your growing  ;D


Best wishes

Normylass

[goodlife]

Well said Normylass.. ;D
Derek..It may well be that your land will be too tough for rotavator anyway..unless it is proper 'heavy duty' one. Which ever route you take there is no easy solution..
One newbie on our allotments too 'quick' route to his plot..he borrowed mini digger :o..skimmed all grass off..then loosened the compacted soil with fork..had work..and run rotavator over. It took him a month to get it all into shape..but like others have said..weeds have not started growing yet..so time will tell if he can keep up with 'new' weeds.
Generally it will take few years to get plot into proper working order..so don't rush it...be thorough with your work or you only end up doing it properly later on..I would suggest doing it a portion at the time and getting it planted as you go... ;)
Leave any spraying untill there is active growth on..round up and similars need decent leaf coverage to soak the chemical in, otherwise there is not enough chemical going down to the roots to kill em...doing it wrong time you might kill the tops only to find out later on the roots have started sprout again with new growth!!

 

[1066]

Welcome to A4A Derek and congrats on the new plot  :)

Lots of good advice so far. I took my plot on 3 years ago, started off digging small areas and planting what I could and then later on got loads of manure and covered areas and planted through. I've done it bit by bit, slowly but surely. And now I have a plot that I'm chuffed to bits with, really productive and is starting to look nice, what with flowers and some permanent planting

Anyway, whatever route you choose, I'm sure you will have a great time  :)

[chriscross1966]

If you can't dig it then weedkil this weekend (once the rain stops, rotavate next weekend, weedkill again the weekend after, then the next weekend rotavate adn get some spuds in, try to put weedsheet down between the rows if you can.....

[mentallot]

thanks to everyone for (varied !) but great advice. Not sure which way to go but the next days and weeks will tell I guess. Thinking about skimming then digging, or maybe even a bit of digging and a lot of chucks, but whatever, we're going to make sure we enjoy :)
Sun was out this afternoon and even though chilly was nice to get up there and start to think big ideas and projects

Now, definately need  to find some of that black stuff to put on the ground like everyone else has :)  Have a good productive year all :)

[1066]

Have a good productive year all :)

And you too!  :)  One other note, take some before and after photos, it's amazing looking back on what you have achieved  ;)

[detailista]

Definately recommend photographing progress, it's made all the difference to me in times I've not felt we were progressing.

Agree with the lasagne beds route. 

I'm just starting my second year, having taken on a derelict and neglected large plot last year.

My lessons learnt last year

Don't buy too many seeds!  Make a list of a few favourite things to grow and concentrate on those initially. It's all to tempting to pick up a few packets each time you're in Lidl/B&Q/Garden Centre etc. If you want some small packets / ecconomical packets of interesting things I recommend and http://www.moreveg.co.uk/ and http://www.realseeds.co.uk/

Don't leave valuable tools on the plot, take them home if you can.

Start a compost heap soon as you can.

Start chitting some potatoes now or soon.  one of my happiest moments from last year was the amazement of pulling up so many beautiful spuds.  Try an interesting variety or two perhaps.  Pink fir apple will definately be planted again this year.  Yum.

Get out a few books from the library, depending on your previous experience.  I found the 'half hour allotment'  really helpful for keeping things in perspective.

Remeber there will be many opinions, it's an art not a science :)  Trust your instinct and dont drop on a load of chemicals just cos him next door says you should. 

Chat to your neighbours.  Try and remember their names.

Share your surplusses, what goes around comes around.

Look out for any local allotment shows - ours is free to enter as many categories as you like and there are some serious cash prizes! As well as categories for individual veg etc. there may be a prize for 'best new allotment' or similar.

Read lots here.  It's the best source of info IMHO and there are so many lovely and helpful people.

Join freecycle online.

Keep your eye out for skips - for all kinds of treasures -  black plastic, netting, pots, wood etc.

And most of all - take care of your back and enjoy every moment! 

Wishing you all the best.

[mentallot]

As the new plot is fairly short grass at the moment, not too bumpy (it was originally ridge and furrow but plowed under years ago) and not too full of debris (once the special brew cans are collected!) would it be worth hiring a turf cutter to top off the turf in one go rather than doing it bit by bit ?

Cheers!

[Ellen K]

A turfcutter will take off the top layer of soil which you'll lose but it sounds like it will make the job a lot easier.

I took on a plot that was completely wild and went down the weedkiller then rotavate route.  The weedkiller I used (glyphosate) didn't touch the brambles (which were like trees)  but it got a lot of the grass.  It worked for me, I applied weedkiller while spending a month digging the worst of the plot then rotovated the whole thing.  There was certainly an element of weed roots being chopped up and spread about but nowhere near as bad as I'd been told and it did mean I could plant the whole thing in the first year.

Just be a bit cautious of the advice that you could cover the whole plot and uncover when you are ready - I have seen people do that and 5 years later they still have ground under cover.  Your 1st year is critical and for many people, they never do as much work on the plot ever again.

[chriscross1966]

If you do take off the turf, stack it in a heap somewhere and in a year or two youwill have a lovely loamy compost perfect for seed sowing....

chrisc

[Russell]

I have found that regularly strimming the grass on a bed you are only going to use later helps to give the perennial weeds a hard time. The bad ones do not thrive in lawns.
Also I had good results using sweet corn for an initial crop. I planted them  well apart (20 inches) so I could get at the weeds between and later when the sweet corn got bigger gave them a top dressing of FYM. The worms dug it in for me.

[Robert_Brenchley]

As long as there aren't many weeds in the grass it's worth doing. Stack it, let it rot for a year or two, and redistribute it wherever you need a bit of soil.