Topic: immediate family

[tvless]

Hi there,after the death of a plotholder,who is classed as immediate family for the plot to be handed down to,cheers

[OllieC]

I'm 99% certain that tenancies with us aren't transferable. You have to be a joint tenant prior to departure. Hope you're doing okay if you've lost someone close.

[shirlton]

It would be their closest relative if the allotment could be handed down, but it doesn't always work that way. I think it is left to the discretion of the committee as to who it passes on to.

[Unwashed]

I don't think there's an allotment site in the country that doesn't get this wrong:  an allotment tenancy is not a non-transferable personal licence, it's property.  Whatever the tenancy agreement says, the landlord can't dictate who inherits it, it's disposed of in exactly the same way as every other bit of the deceased's property.

[grannyjanny]

On our site when a plot holder dies it has been passed on to a spouse. I did ask about this as the tenancy is in OH name even though it was me that had had my name down. I was told in the event it would be transferred to my name.

[OllieC]

I don't think there's an allotment site in the country that doesn't get this wrong:  an allotment tenancy is not a non-transferable personal licence, it's property.  Whatever the tenancy agreement says, the landlord can't dictate who inherits it, it's disposed of in exactly the same way as every other bit of the deceased's property.

Interesting & at the risk of digressing - is that why you have to give it up if declared bankrupt?

[saddad]

Welcome to A4A TVLess... strangely so am I. That's fairly clear then... Unwashed is almost always right on these things. Certainly that was the jist we were given at the NAGT meeting last Saturday. It does no harm to amke it a joint tenancy before hand if you can...

[goodlife]

Our plots are transferable as we have them as shares. We classify 'immediate family' as spouse or son/daughter...we don't automaticly transfer but shares are offered to be transfered and if not taken we refund the value for the next of kin.
After that plot is offered to next person in waiting list..

[elvis2003]

Welcome to A4A TVLess... strangely so am I. That's fairly clear then... Unwashed is almost always right on these things. Certainly that was the jist we were given at the NAGT meeting last Saturday. It does no harm to amke it a joint tenancy before hand if you can...

we are not allowed joint tenancies

[Trevor_D]

It depends on your site. Most sites are Council-owned and/or run and what Unwashed says is correct. (It usually is!)

But some are set up differently. We're independent and are set up as a mutual society; we're all shareholders and have a right to transfer our shares. In practice, this translates as an elderly member approaches the Committee to transfer the tenancy to a son or daughter. It also happens between husband and wife, when one officially takes on the plot, but the other does most of the work and spends the hours there.

You need to ask the people who rent out the plots, rather than us, as we're all different.

[Ellen K]

Nottingham City Council are going through a "consultation period" (they are wanting to put up the rent, a lot) and they have published their tenancy agreement in its entirety on their website.

It says you the tenant cant sell or sublet the plot but if he/she dies, it passes just the same as other property:

If a plotholder dies, Nottingham City Council will allow the tenancy of the allotment to pass
to the person who inherits the estate of the deceased, or to someone nominated by the
beneficiary or the executor of the estate.

Full text here: http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=23874&p=0]

So (gasps from the crowd): I agree with the great Unwashed, may his geodesic cage stand for a thousand years  :)

[kt.]

On our site the plot can go to next of kin - husband/wife/son/daughter only.  If the next of kin already has a plot then it goes to next on the waiting list.  Any other 'plot sharing' partner has no right to the tenancy.

[pumkinlover]

Our rules allow someone who has had a previous involvement in the plot to take over at the discretion of Secretary and Chair. It's a small site so we tend to have a fair idea who does what. This was changed after discussion in NSALG magazine a few years ago. When a plot holder died we felt it would be wrong if his wife who had often worked on the plot was not allowed to continue.
On the other hand if a parent died but then passed the allotment tenancy on to a relative by leaving it in the will. Then that child could end up having to look after a plot just to go along with the wishes of the parent... or not looking after it because they never wanted it.
I think commensense should prevail Ha Ha

[Trevor_D]

I think you've picked out the important point there. It's common sense.

And if whoever is in charge knows the situation, then: a) the older plot-holder will have had a sensible conversation and transferred it; b) the law doesn't have to blunder in - all relevant facts unknown - and trample everyone underfoot.

Back to my original point: what are the rules on your site tvless? And why are you querying it? Some back-story would be helpful.

Welcome, by the way. We give all sorts of advice here.

[tvless]

Thank you all for your replys,much appreciated,am going to have a word with allotment commitee to try and find out exact rules,allotment been in family for 30 yrs so would like to carry it on,a bit reluctant to give details publicly but would be willing to pm

[tvless]

unwashed,just re read your reply,by that reckoning would it be up to the next of kin to who the plot goes to?

[Unwashed]

I don't think there's an allotment site in the country that doesn't get this wrong:  an allotment tenancy is not a non-transferable personal licence, it's property.  Whatever the tenancy agreement says, the landlord can't dictate who inherits it, it's disposed of in exactly the same way as every other bit of the deceased's property.

Interesting & at the risk of digressing - is that why you have to give it up if declared bankrupt?

I don't understand that whole bunkrupt thing, but yes, ownership of real property does seem to be incompatible with bankruptcy at a fundamental level as it goes way back and is certainly in the Allotments Act.

[Unwashed]

Unwashed is almost always right on these things. Certainly that was the jist we were given at the NAGT meeting last Saturday.

Nice of them to mention me ;D

Welcome tvless - so am I!

[tvless]

the exact quote from the council rules "vacant allotment gardens on a site must be offered by the council or association to applicants on the waiting list for that site kept by the council or association except where the plot falls vacant because of the tenants death where they must be offered to any member of the tenants immediate family who wishes to take over the allotment garden"

[Unwashed]

unwashed,just re read your reply,by that reckoning would it be up to the next of kin to who the plot goes to?

No.  The executors are custodians of the estate and have to divvy it up according to the will or probate.  If it wasn't explicitly named (and I doubt it was) it goes to whoever got the residue.

Trevor_D makes a good point.  I don't understand how it works with sites that don't simply lease you the plot but kind of let you use it as a benefit of some kind of membership.  It's possible that the membership is actually property that goes with the estate, but really I have no idea.  Mostly sites will do the sensible thing anyways, but not always, and particularly now plots are scarce.