Author Topic: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents  (Read 31467 times)

Kea

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2011, 18:24:25 »
How much do they charge the users of the playgrounds and football fields?

ConfusedRhubarb

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2011, 00:41:25 »
 :)
nowt for playgrounds
there is a charge for some football fields i think...
subsidy to swimming is going up by 3-4 %


This might be interesting to Greenwich plotholders
freedom of information request with no of plots - total rents - and no of plotholders for each council managed site in greenwich

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/allotment_leases_south_london_gr#incoming-152363

EnglishRose

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2011, 08:16:57 »
At the last 'consultation' meeting, the Council representative promised to write to all plotholders to advise them of the proposed increase.  We're now in March, the rent is due in April.......and I've received precisely nothing from the Council.  If I hadn't picked up the news via a local blog, I'd still be none the wiser about what's going on.

Time to write a very stiff letter to the Council!   Not that they will take any notice.  I contacted my local councillor a few weeks ago and had the most pathetic reply which didn't address any of the points I'd made and was about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Sadly there doesn't seem to be a united campaign against the proposals.  As I've said before, it's not something I can lead myself due to conflict of interest but I'd have happily helped out if someone else had got something up and running.  This really doesn't bode at all well for the Council's suggestion that we all go self-managed: if we can't organise a protest campaign, how on earth are we ever going to run our own sites?  People obviously don't have the time/skills/willingness to take on a bit of responsibility even when it's in their own interests.  It's a huge shame.

goodlife

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2011, 09:15:22 »
Code: [Select]
People obviously don't have the time/skills/willingness to take on a bit of responsibility even when it's in their own interests.  It's a huge shameI've been following your story with interest..unfortunately I've got no real help in offer other than my sympathy :-\
Our site is private but the situation in general is not that much different comparing the members in put. It allways falls to few individuals who have to make the effort for doing everything..there is never too many, if any offers for somebody new to step to committee or other roles.
I also think it is not about having skills as such or time..it pure lack or willingness/laziness.
Yes it does take some of those individuals time..but it ain't full time job..not even part time.
Perhaps advertising how 'little' people pay in other sites would raise interest.. ???

Digeroo

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2011, 10:26:13 »
I also am following this with interest.  I must say I think that the information response would be funny if their ineptitude was not costing tax payers money.  Having been an accountant I find their information systems poor in the extreme, and how can they have any controll of costs when they have so little idea of what is going on.  They appear to be muddling through.  Seems odd do they even have enough information to send out any invoices at all?

I love your expression about chocolate teapots English Rose.  I have written to my MP several time and the response always seems to miss the point and is very simplistic and rather patronising directing me a some simple solution.  If it had been that easy I would not have written to my MP at all.  Yes there are a lot of chocolate teapots around.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 10:39:33 by Digeroo »

Unwashed

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2011, 14:45:06 »
At the last 'consultation' meeting, the Council representative promised to write to all plotholders to advise them of the proposed increase.  We're now in March, the rent is due in April.......and I've received precisely nothing from the Council.  If I hadn't picked up the news via a local blog, I'd still be none the wiser about what's going on.

Time to write a very stiff letter to the Council!   Not that they will take any notice.  I contacted my local councillor a few weeks ago and had the most pathetic reply which didn't address any of the points I'd made and was about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Sadly there doesn't seem to be a united campaign against the proposals.  As I've said before, it's not something I can lead myself due to conflict of interest but I'd have happily helped out if someone else had got something up and running.  This really doesn't bode at all well for the Council's suggestion that we all go self-managed: if we can't organise a protest campaign, how on earth are we ever going to run our own sites?  People obviously don't have the time/skills/willingness to take on a bit of responsibility even when it's in their own interests.  It's a huge shame.
Tell me again, what is it that you want to protest about?  Your council are giving you the choice either to  self-manage or to pay their full administrative costs.  That sounds very fair to me.  Rather than complain, why not organise the self-management?
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EnglishRose

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2011, 08:17:40 »
Tell me again, what is it that you want to protest about?  Your council are giving you the choice either to  self-manage or to pay their full administrative costs.  That sounds very fair to me.  Rather than complain, why not organise the self-management?

I'm very concerned about the Council's lack of a proper consultation process and the fact that they are introducing quite significant increases without giving plotholders adequate notice. 

To take the consultation process first.  There is absolutely no information on the Council website to indicate that a consultation is in progress or indeed to indicate that they are proposing to increase plot rents.  No information has been sent to plotholders either - the only way that I found out about the proposals was via an independent blog.  I understand that the Council has some very difficult decisions to make, but they made a commitment to do so only after fair and open consultation.  I'm not sure how the 'consultation' process that has taken place can be considered to be either fair or open when a lot of people don't even know that it's taking place!  There might have been some very good alternative ideas out there that haven't been fed into the process because people haven't been given the opportunity to contribute.

Secondly, the lack of notice really worries me.  I can just about afford the proposed increase in rent.  But there are plotholders out there on fixed incomes who will be budgeting to pay a certain amount for their rent in April and for whom the significant rent increase will come as a very nasty surprise.  I raised this point at the last consultation meeting and the Council grudgingly promised to write to all plotholders to give them some notice about the proposed increase.  That hasn’t happened and we’re now less than a month away from the rent due date.  The increase might seem ‘easily affordable’ to a Councillor but I can just imagine it causing distress and upset to some plotholders.  As Mr Knightly would say, ‘Badly done, Greenwich Council, badly done’.

As for organising the self-management, I’ve already made an offer to our Site Rep to explore self management options and to co-ordinate a meeting to discuss it all.  That was turned down.  I’m not quite sure what to do next.  If I push anything through without the support of the Site Rep, that’s only going to start splitting the site into factions – hardly a good start to self management!  At the moment I’m doing lots of reading / research on self-management so that I’m well informed; I might then try again in a couple of months’ time to see whether any interest can be generated.  And yes, if the majority of the site eventually decides that it wants self management, I’ll happily roll up my sleeves and muck in.  I’m not being lazy, just trying to tread carefully.  There’s a difference.

Unwashed

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2011, 10:42:19 »
Tell me again, what is it that you want to protest about?  Your council are giving you the choice either to  self-manage or to pay their full administrative costs.  That sounds very fair to me.  Rather than complain, why not organise the self-management?

I'm very concerned about the Council's lack of a proper consultation process and the fact that they are introducing quite significant increases without giving plotholders adequate notice. 

To take the consultation process first.  There is absolutely no information on the Council website to indicate that a consultation is in progress or indeed to indicate that they are proposing to increase plot rents.  No information has been sent to plotholders either - the only way that I found out about the proposals was via an independent blog.  I understand that the Council has some very difficult decisions to make, but they made a commitment to do so only after fair and open consultation.  I'm not sure how the 'consultation' process that has taken place can be considered to be either fair or open when a lot of people don't even know that it's taking place!  There might have been some very good alternative ideas out there that haven't been fed into the process because people haven't been given the opportunity to contribute.

Secondly, the lack of notice really worries me.  I can just about afford the proposed increase in rent.  But there are plotholders out there on fixed incomes who will be budgeting to pay a certain amount for their rent in April and for whom the significant rent increase will come as a very nasty surprise.  I raised this point at the last consultation meeting and the Council grudgingly promised to write to all plotholders to give them some notice about the proposed increase.  That hasn’t happened and we’re now less than a month away from the rent due date.  The increase might seem ‘easily affordable’ to a Councillor but I can just imagine it causing distress and upset to some plotholders.  As Mr Knightly would say, ‘Badly done, Greenwich Council, badly done’.

As for organising the self-management, I’ve already made an offer to our Site Rep to explore self management options and to co-ordinate a meeting to discuss it all.  That was turned down.  I’m not quite sure what to do next.  If I push anything through without the support of the Site Rep, that’s only going to start splitting the site into factions – hardly a good start to self management!  At the moment I’m doing lots of reading / research on self-management so that I’m well informed; I might then try again in a couple of months’ time to see whether any interest can be generated.  And yes, if the majority of the site eventually decides that it wants self management, I’ll happily roll up my sleeves and muck in.  I’m not being lazy, just trying to tread carefully.  There’s a difference.
So your approach is to moan about the situation here without doing anything about it?.  I also posted earlier about challenging the fairness of the rent increase on the basis of the lack of notice.
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chriscross1966

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2011, 11:10:38 »
Swindon is looking to get all sites to switch to self-managed to try adn save costs too.... problem is at the moment it's all centrally managed.... added to which my site is quite small (<30 plots) ... hopefully we'd be able to tack ourselves onto the big site that's 30 yard down the track on the other side, adding a rep to their committee.... fingers crossed though.... we have a fairly active association too, so hopeulyl we'll manage the transition OK and with a bit of luck actually reduce (or at least freeze) our rents....

EnglishRose

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2011, 12:45:04 »
So your approach is to moan about the situation here without doing anything about it?.  I also posted earlier about challenging the fairness of the rent increase on the basis of the lack of notice.
[/quote]

Clearly you've not bothered reading everything I've said.  As I have said before and say again, I cannot run a campaign against the proposals myself as it would be in breach of my terms of employment.  However, as a private citizen I have:

a) attended the consultation meeting and put my concerns direct to the Council
b) sent a follow-up message to the Council asking them to explain why they have not actioned a clear commitment to inform *all* plotholders about the proposed changes
c) written to my local councillors, challenging the rent increase and drawing their attention to my concerns about the consultation process
d) made an offer to my Site Rep to explore self management options on his behalf and to co-ordinate a meeting for plotholders to discuss the situation
e) contacted plot-holders at other sites to find out whether there are any challenges or campaigns which I might be able to support behind the scenes

I'm not quite sure what else you think I ought to have done, given my personal circumstances.  And, as I said in my last post, I haven't quite given up despite the knock-backs: I don't yet know what to do next, but I'm actively exploring potential options to find out what I might be able to put forward in a couple of months' time without upsetting people.  

The reason I continue to post here is partly to keep anyone who may be interested updated on what little I know about the situation and partly in the hope that by talking about the situation I might establish contact with people who are actively involved in local challenges/campaigns/self management investigation schemes that I can support.

Unwashed

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2011, 12:56:12 »
Clearly you've not bothered reading everything I've said.  As I have said before and say again, I cannot run a campaign against the proposals myself as it would be in breach of my terms of employment.
No need to get on your high horse, I've read read what you've said.  And my question is again, why do you want to organise a protest when you could organise the self-management?  You don't need your site rep's consent, and if you want to accept your site rep's right of veto then that's up to you, but I'm sure you'd do better if you were constructive and talked to the Council about how you could help introduce self-management on your site.
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EnglishRose

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2011, 13:36:23 »
And my question is again, why do you want to organise a protest when you could organise the self-management? 

Site management will take several months to set up, at the very least.  Greenwich Council is proposing to increase rent as from this April - i.e. in one month's time.  The Council has not yet told the plotholders about the proposed rent increase (despite a commitment to do so).  Likewise, the Council has not publicised the fact that sites can go down the self-managed route: I only know about it because I happened to find out about the consultation independently and went along to the meeting.  If the Council is claiming to offer people an alternative to paying the extra rent (i.e. by going down the self managed route) then they should ensure that all plotholders are aware of the options. 

As it is, the total lack of communication will mean that a) the rent increase will come as a nasty shock to quite a few people, b) when plotholders do find out about the increase, they won't know that there's an alternative to paying the Council a lot of extra money and c) plotholders won't have any time to organise self-management if they do somehow find out about that option and want to pursue it.  That's why I feel that there is a need for some sort of a protest campaign right now.

[quote author = Unwashed link=topic=65307.msg670738#msg670738 date=1299156972]
You don't need your site rep's consent[/quote]


But when I rang the Council after the consultation meeting to find out how self-management might be introduced at my site, that's precisely what I was told. 

And that is a jolly good illustration of the muddle that we're in at the moment.  We have the Council proposing to increase rents enormously but not telling everyone about the proposal.  When those who do know/find out about the situation protest, they are grudgingly told that their sites can always opt for self management.  However, not all site reps are in favour of self management, the information isn't passed on to individual plotholders and (according to the Council) there doesn't seem to be any way of introducing a discussion on self-management if the site rep isn't in favour.  It's not a good situation at all.

bluecar

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2011, 21:47:50 »
Just a suggestion. Plot activity should be increasing now. Could you put up notices on your site about the proposed increases and put forward a date, time and venue for plotholders to meet. A petition could be started and given to your site representative to take forwards to the Council. Another request to the site representative, signed by as many as possible, would be why the site representative is not supportive of self management.

Regards

Bluecar

ConfusedRhubarb

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2011, 10:17:24 »
hi - this is for english rose
If you emailled/phoned who i think you phoned then i think you need to take it to the next level.  from what others have said you won't find her very helpful or proactive - and this is a new thing for LBG - the other self managed sites have been so for ages.
 
I would start by doing what bluecar suggests on your own site, then by emailling / telephoning round the other numbers on that list I sent you - there were a couple who seemed quite interested in SMgmt.  If you can get a few people together then LBG will take more notice.

You should email cllr f - and copy in robert goring and lesley whatshername. tell cllr f that some (where some = one for now!) of your site holders are interested in self management.   If you feed him some suggestions and then ask him to advise what your next steps would be, then they might well just agree to your suggestions.

Im not sure exactly what the site rep's do, but i think it is mostly about showing potential new plot holders round, and I know it is completely voluntary.  I think it's understandable that your site rep is a bit wary - because he he prob knows that everyone will expect him to take a big role.  SMgmt is a bit of a burden on the committee members - and like all voluntary things the workload will not be fairly spread - some people will never bother. And, even if you've just spent months working to save them from a massive rent increase you can still find them griping and whingeing rather than gratitude   >:(  :-X 

ConfusedRhubarb

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2011, 20:22:35 »
BBC1 prime time television do a feature on allotment rent increases and encourage people to fight them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00z5f54/The_One_Show_02_03_2011/

Woo Hoo!

Well done Highcombe allotments
and thank you to Rosemary Green 

Digeroo

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ConfusedRhubarb

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2011, 09:59:05 »
oops sorry digeroo.

Digeroo

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2011, 10:01:07 »
No worries I am just pleased that allotments and veg growing is getting as much publicity as possible. 

ConfusedRhubarb

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2011, 22:17:28 »
Greenwich council will be deciding on the allotment rent increase on Tuesday March 22.

http://committees.greenwich.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=14000
this link is to their report.

they are now planning to raise the rent from £6.70 up to £13.20 and then the next year to £20.
they are recommending that self managed sites be allowed to set own rent, and also do make quite a big deal about how they are planning to get more allotments to be self managed and so lower costs. 

This is all theoretical of course because since the consultation meetings the allotments officer has actually been very obstructive won't give any info to plotholder except the 18 unelected site reps- some of whom haven't been seen for over a year.

There is again a lot of spin in the council's presentation of it, so some people, perhaps from Newbury, who haven't actually been to the meetings or involved directly, might read it and get the impression that the council are actually being deliberately helpful, and are offering guidance and support to sites who are thinking about self management.  This is far from true and I can't see the councils attitude turning around very quickly.

Still - slow progress is being made - i can't make it to the meeting on March 22 but will be emailling the cabinet members who will be voting - their emails and phone numbers can be found on this page if anyone else wants to do the same
http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/YourCouncil/YourRepresentatives/Councillors/

Unwashed

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Re: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2011, 23:16:59 »
There is again a lot of spin in the council's presentation of it, so some people, perhaps from Newbury, who haven't actually been to the meetings or involved directly, might read it and get the impression that the council are actually being deliberately helpful, and are offering guidance and support to sites who are thinking about self management.  This is far from true and I can't see the councils attitude turning around very quickly.
I mailed one of your councillors last week to see if I could help.  Didn't get a reply.  Seems like your councill are a bunch of dicks after all.  Who'd 'ave thunk it. :-\
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