Topic: Greenwich Council Increasing Plot Rents

[ConfusedRhubarb]

Unwashed - One will consider your request.  ;)

BTW someone has posted the date of the meeting on another forum.
Apparently it will be "at the Town Hall on the 9th of February at 6pm."

No-one at my site has heard from the council though. ???

[Unwashed]

Unwashed - One will consider your request.  ;)

:)

[ConfusedRhubarb]

Greenwich Council have finally sent our allotment chairman the date of the next meeting - next Wednesday it is!

They've also sent out papers which supposedly have the info that was promised about costs and costings, budgets and the discretionary rates.  I haven't been sent anything personally so it seems that council don't think the ordinary plot holders (a mere 755 of us) need to be consulted.

If anyone wants a copy, pm me your email address and i'll forward it along.  I haven't read it all yet, but it better be good, especially as it has taken Greenwich 2 weeks longer to send out than they promised.

humph.

[craftyparsnip]

Hi I'm one of a few plot holders who lives outside the borough.
In 2005 when I applied for a plot I was basically told to take my pick from 50 or so plots that  had been lying idle for years "you couldn't tell where one plot started or finished" They even gave me the first year free as the site was so bad
I recently found out that they intend to hike the rents up to £400 for non residents and quite frankly I felt physically sick when hearing this.. They no longer offer plots to non residents, haven't for a year or more
If Greenwich council get their way with this immoral price hike it looks like I'll be handing my key back in April .. I cant help feeling victimised for not being a resident
Its breaking my heart  :'(

[chairman]

have sent a pm

[ConfusedRhubarb]

Hello Crafty Parsnip

I'm really sorry to hear that you are thinking of giving up your plot.  I can imagine how much hard work you must have put into it.   Just because you aren't a resident doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have a say - there are definitely other people out there trying our best to talk the council into making it a more reasonable rise.  But the more public pressure there is the better.  I thought your post was very moving, perhaps you could send a letter to the Mercury or the Newshopper?

best wishes
and you are not alone

Confused Rhubarb

[johnlawrence84]

we at new eltham have finaly got the petition up and running
i cannot seem to be able to get the petition blank  on the allotment 4 all webbsite
i will bring some sheets of the petition to the council meeting on wednesday.
what is happening re the legal side over the outragious incease,i have been informed
its against the law?
it will nice to be able to concentrate on doing some digging.in stead of allotment increases

[EnglishRose]

Apologies for not participating in the discussion recently - my laptop hard drive died last weekend and I've been without internet access for a bit.

I've still heard virtually nothing about the proposed increases via official channels.  I popped down to my plot yesterday and there was a short flyer pinned on the noticeboard listing the proposed increases, but no information whatsoever about consultations or even who had put the notice up.  I've got no idea who's been invited to represent our site or how to get hold of them.  It sounds as though some sites are quite well organised - ours isn't one of them!  If I hadn't heard about the increase via a local blog and then started a thread here, I'd still be none the wiser about what's going on.

I'd really like to sign the petition and will PM JohnLawrence shortly to find out how to do so.  I'm also in the middle of penning a letter to the Council - I doubt it will do much good, but I pay my Council Tax so I might as well try holding them to account!

[ConfusedRhubarb]

hello john and english rose

John you might find people aren't very keen to sign your petition simply because it is only about those two particular plots.  I think you should try an online petition.  Barnet have got one, and so have Brent. Both councils are trying to raise their rent to £170 for a std plot. 

English Rose - try and come to the meeting on Wed evening this week - 9 Feb. I've just sent you an email with some info provided by the council.  Forward it to anyone you can think of who has a plot, or could give a copy to a plot holder.

Someone from our plot is bringing a sort of sign in sheet for each plot/plotholder to put down their contact details so we can all get in contact more easily.

There are people looking into the legal side - under the Allotments act 1950 and a piece of case law called something like Harwood vs Reigate & Banstead Borough Council.  Somewhat unsurprisingly Greenwich have refused to answer questions or discuss this.   But remember that we are on self managed sites, so it is a different thing and different rules apply - i really do think that all the council managed sites need to get in touch and get organised somehow.
 
I've been sowing sweet peas - and burning stuff - and spreading manure.  Happy times.
And going to allotment committee meetings - not so much fun ...

Oh - nearly forgot the most exciting allotmenty news of the day - our site was visited today by film crew from http://thehorticulturalchannel.info/ - the greenwich rent increase is going to star in their opening show.  I think the nice welsh bloke said March 6th - They have a competition where you can win a shed and a greenhouse on their website.  worth a go i reckon.

[ConfusedRhubarb]

Hi. Went to meeting. Good result for self managed which is my site. Not so good for most sites tho. "offer" is that increase will be staggered over 4 yrs - but no specifics actually given.  ??? People should still carry on protest. Lobbioy Greenwich cabinet and esp leader Chris Roberts. Also keep up media pressure. Good luck

[ConfusedRhubarb]

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/8845252.GREENWICH__Allotment_rent_increases_may_be_illegal/

just went up on net few minutes ago.

[johnlawrence84]

i,together,with about 50 other allotment holders attended last evenings meeting
with the greenwich council higher archy,for the third time,to so called,discuss the
forthcomming allotment increases.we again did not acheive much.
the proposed increases are still too much.the main item was the increases
will be fazed in now over 4 years instead of 2 years.

[EnglishRose]

As ConfusedRhubarb says, the situation looks reasonable for self managed sites but not so good for sites managed by the Council. 

The Council is looking to reduce the allotment subsidy from 80% to 33% over a four year period.  In practical terms, that means that we will be paying £20 per rod in four years' time.  There seems to be no room for negotiation on this point - the original proposal was to jump straight to £20 per rod this year, so the Council regards the four-year plan as a 'compromise' solution.

The Council is very keen on the idea of sites moving to self-managed status.  Self-managed sites would be able to set their own rents and manage their own maintenance - which is a Good Thing for people like ConfusedRhubarb.  Unfortunately it seems that there isn't much interest in this option at our site according to our site rep (who I finally managed to meet last night).  This means that we'll stay under Council management and will have to pay whatever rent is set by the Council.

One of the more controversial suggestions put forward by the Council was that plotholders could sell their surplus produce to a commercial enterprise identified by the Council, with the profits going straight to the Council for re-investment into the management of allotment sites.  I'm not quite sure how they square that with the regulations set out in the Allotment Act 1950, but never mind......

The Council is also proposing to set up an allotment panel of six-eight people who will meet with Council reps on a regular basis to discuss allotment issues.  This sounds like a great idea in theory, but when some site reps aren't overly keen to communicate with plotholders about the current proposals I can't see that the new panel is going to be terribly representative, especially if it's not elected. 

All in all, I'm feeling rather gloomy about the whole situation.

[tonybloke]

why do the council want to charge so much?
self-management sites cost Nil to the tax-payer, and about £2 per rod to the tenants, what's so difficult?

[EnglishRose]

The reason the Council wants to charge so much is because a) their funding has been cut significantly as a result of the Comprehensive Spending Review and b) their accountants are obsessed with percentages and feel that the Council can't justify subsidising a leisure activity by 80%.  The fact that they'd raise more revenue by increasing parking charges within the borough by 4-5% than they would by increasing allotment rents by nearly 400% to £20 per rod seems to have escaped their notice (despite being pointed out at the meeting last night).

I have no objection to the idea of self-managed sites; indeed, I'd quite like to go down that route.  However, I get the very strong impression that I'm in the minority.  On my site, for example, the site rep thinks that it's too difficult/time consuming to gather opinions from individual plotholders about the proposed increases (hence why nothing's been put up on our noticeboard), never mind getting people together to self-manage the site!  A lot of people are also quite concerned about the initial set-up costs of going down the self-management route, especially when the Council's not willing to make any commitment about releasing funds to cover capital set-up.

[Unwashed]

Are there significant set-up costs in going self-managed?

When self-management so clearly works I don't have a lot of sympathy for allotmenteers who can't be asked to do the work and want the state to support their hobby at 80p in the £.

I wouldn't have thought it was beyound the whit of man for the sites in Greenwich to federate so that administration could be pooled, because if you have the nous to organise a protest, you certainly have everything it takes to manage your own sites.

[tonybloke]

our lot have Me, (general Secretary) a Treasurer, and a committee of management, all volunteers. each site has a secretary who collects rents, lets plots etc.
we do pay a bit in stationary / postage etc, but not a lot.

shouldn't be too much hassle / cost to set up.  ;) ;D

the reason a lot of folk don't go down the self-managed route is 'cos they want everything done for them, and cant be a*sed to help themselves. :(

[ConfusedRhubarb]

Hello people - and hello again EnglishRose  :)

The Greenwich allotment holders had their final "consultation" meeting with the Council last night.  Although the council only told one person from each site about the meeting there were a fair few plotholders there.  Most will have been disappointed as the council is still planning to increase rents on Council sites, but has agreed to stagger it over 4 years.  They didn't give specific prices, but will publish them on their website on Mon 7 March as part of the papers for the Cabinet meeting on Tue 15 March.  That meeting is open to the public - check out the website for how to arrange to speak or ask a question or to send a written "representation".

Here are a few points which Cllr John Fahy did agree to at the meeting and later by email
* The representative from your finance team agreed to provide details of how central overheads have been allocated to the Leisure and Southmere Lake budgets so as to make the comparisons with the allotments fair.
* It is proposed that an allotment tenants panel will be set up in order to have quarterly meetings with the Council in order to discuss matters relating to the sites. This needs further clarification as to how it will operate in that it will be difficult to have a panel which will contain a member from each site in that this would involve 17 people. In addition more detail needs to be provided generally as to the role and constitution of the panel
    * The self managed sites will be permitted to set their own rents subject to certain constraints that will be agreed shortly.
    * You will be writing to all tenants at non self managed sites to say that you are proposing that the rent will be increased on phased basis over 4 years with only limited increases in years one and two but with higher percentage increases in years 3 and 4.
    * The reason for the rent increases being phased in is to encourage sites to move to a self managed basis. In order to help with this move if sites wish to take advantage of it you agreed to consider giving site management associations "seed core" funding in orser to allow them some security in being able to meet unexpected costs that might arise.
    * In the letter to non self managed tenants you agreed to indicate when the actual proposed increase would be posted on the Council's website, the address of the relevant webpage will also be provided and you will set out the procedure for making representations to the Cabinet meeting in March.

And there are few other promises that Cllr Fahy has been reminded about in writing.
7) Robert Goring's piece of work was to produce a report showing the actual maintenance works and associated costs carried at each of the council managed sites (i.e. how often grass/hedges were trimmed, etc) and the theoretical schedule of works and associated costs which are laid out in the Service Level Agreements for each site.
8) You made an emphatic "total guarantee" that a 50% concession would continue to be applied for retired people as per the current set of rules "in perpetuity".
9) You acknowledged that a site newly setting up as self managed would not only need "seed core" monies as below for unforeseen circumstances, but also for predictable foreseen circumstances.  These would include at the least, somewhere secure to store maintenance equipment, the equipment itself, and costs for communication of the changes - ie printing & distribution and premises hire for meetings.
10) Also may I suggest that you distribute contact details for the relevant site reps in your letters to plotholders as several attending last night did not know who these people were.

Self managed sites like mine have been making the most noise in the local media and have now been allowed to set their own rents.  If you are from one of the council managed sites and would like to get in touch please send an email to diggin4victory@gmail.com.  We can also put you in touch with other council managed sites.

[EnglishRose]

I wouldn't have thought it was beyound the whit of man for the sites in Greenwich to federate so that administration could be pooled, because if you have the nous to organise a protest, you certainly have everything it takes to manage your own sites.

Therein lies the problem!

There hasn't actually been an 'organised protest' to date.  Most of the noise thus far has been made by the self-managed sites; reps from the Council-run sites have attended the 'consultation' meetings but not all have circulated information to their plotholders or grouped together to co-ordinate their objections.  Feelings are running high, but from the conversations I had with a couple of Council-run site reps, I have the impression that they felt they lacked the experience and time to manage a co-ordinated protest (I might be wrong on this point, but that was the impression I got on Tues evening.....) 

I'd happily step forward to run the protest myself but I can't because I work for central government and am therefore precluded from running campaigns against local government policies (I think I can participate, but leading is another matter entirely!).

Anyway, that's the protest side of things.  On the subject of self-management, I'm not quite sure how to proceed as I'm not a site rep.  I think it's a great idea but my site rep's not in favour of the idea and I don't want to step on any toes as I'm still very new to the site.  I have suggested that it might be a good idea for our Site Rep to organise a meeting for all plotholders so that we can discuss the issue (I even volunteered to put up a poster on site and help organise the meeting), but I don't think it's going to happen at the moment.  It'll be interesting to see how things progress over the next few months.........

[Unwashed]

What the Council needs to do is write to all the allotmenteers and let them know that they want their site to go self-managed, and if it won't they're going to be charged the full commercial rate for the council to manage them.  And then if the site doesn't already have a site association then ideally the Council would call a tenants' meeting so that the site could form a management committee.

The Council could also usefully move things along by encouraging the site associations to form a federation to pool the administration as tonybloke described.

The NSALG provide help and support so any site association would do well to get them involved if the Council hasn't already got them on board.

Then it's up to the allotmenteers, and if they can't get their act together they end up paying the full commercial rate.  Simples.

If only Newbury Town Council was like Greenwich Council. :-\