Topic: 'Student' demo this afternoon

[Bill Door]

I saw about 8 minutes of the film.  I was patiently waiting for the peaceful demonstration part. Strange that some people only want the police to have water cannons next time.

Bill

[Froglegs]

If that's the mentality of students today then the future is looking very bleak.

[mat]

no, its the mentality of hired thugs.  Don't tar all students with the same brush please.  Almost all students I know realise the fee increases are necessary, that most people will actually end up paying back less and are appalled at the violoence which will be counter productive.  Those who do not think this way are in the minority, and haven't bothered to read the "detail".

I would bet that many of the people carrying out the violence are only there as an excuse to do so, not actually for the cause... reminds me of protests 20 years ago, etc, when students would be paid to attend protests, they'd be picked up and taken to the protest in a coach.  Most did not even really know what they were protesting about, and many were just "hired thugs" out for as much trouble as possible or needed the money and didn't want violoence.

I feel sorry for children who have parents who do not respect education and students, and feel they should "just get a job".  I bet not many of you who disparage turf management courses, could say why the chemistry of the soil would affect grass growth and how to correct soil colloidal properties so as to ensure the pitches are suitable (and no, I am not/have not done a turf management course! But I respect those that have, and that's why they earn more than most of you who "just got a job")

Stop criticising all students.  Just criticise the ones who are carrying out the violence... (yes, they need the "book thrown at them".

oh... i'd like you see you educate a tree... possibly not the best analogy...

train - "to develop or form the habits, thoughts, or behaviour of (a child or other person) by discipline and instruction"

educate - "to develop the faculties and powers of (a person) by teaching, instruction, or schooling.
 or "to qualify by instruction or training for a particular calling, practice, etc.

[OllieC]

no, its the mentality of hired thugs.  Don't tar all students with the same brush please.  Almost all students I know realise the fee increases are necessary, that most people will actually end up paying back less and are appalled at the violence which will be counter productive.  Those who do not think this way are in the minority, and haven't bothered to read the "detail".

I agree that the violence is not from most students - it's mostly self-proclaimed "Anarchists" - living out of mummy & daddy's pockets. I disagree about the increase in fees being good though - I have read the detail and I think it's terrible. It means that state education is free until you're 18, and then costs between £6k and £9k a year. I do not accept that further privatising higher education is "progress". Why stop at Universities? Why not charge everyone for A-level education? And when it comes to it, why not privatise all of our health care and road system?
Oh, plus a number of MPs made a personal pledge and have broken it. That deserves a bit of civil unrest in it's own right.

[mat]

I am a mature student.  On my previous (very good) salary I'll be paying back £50/month MORE on the current system than on the new system.  which would I rather?!

yes, fees go will go up, but it's only the richest who'll end up paying back more (and the whole amount)

It's a tax, not a debt, and a tax which will be wiped clean when reaching 50yrs of age...

I found out last week when going for interviews at a Uni, that Americans come to study at UK universities because they are so cheap, even at International rates.  To study law in the USA would cost them $150,000 over three years... 

it would be lovely to have free education for all for life, but in the current enconomic climate it is not realistic.

oh, and the Lib Dems did not break their pledge.  They are NOT solely in power - they are part of a coalition, and are really only a minority part of that coalition.  They realistically could not make all their pledges some to reality.  If you marry, you give and take with your values and wishes, this is what a coalition govt is about.  And I honestly believe they are trying to get the country out of the mess Labour and the Banks left it in.

[Digeroo]

If that's the mentality of students today then the future is looking very bleak

But I think that the future is looking very bleak for students.  When they talk about jub cuts they often say it will be from natural wastage.  But this in effect is saying they will not be taking on any new starters.  With little or no public sector job availablitiy and most companies being very careful about taking on new staff the student population have little to look forward to.  Students are looking at continuing unemployment.  Though I suppose that actually in these circumstances not having to pay the fees up front is great.

Can I now go to Uni for free?  Since there is no likelihood of ever being in a position ot pay it back.

[OllieC]

The individuals signed personal pledges that they would not vote in favour of increased tuition fees. They have broken those personal pledges & I hope that they are punished in the next general election. It's a shame that as a candidate in the by-election next May, I will be tarnished by those individuals that have broken their promises. I spent a month canvassing for the Lib Dems door to door before the general election - I know what I was told to tell people on their doorsteps & people did not expect this.

[betula]

Yes they did break the pledges they made.They could have voted no.The final outcome of the vote makes no difference to the fact that they broke their pledge.

You can not defend them it is so clear cut.

Not men and women of honour then .

All the best Ollie,think you may need a tin helmet when you go canvassing again. :)

[grawrc]

They could, at least, have abstained.

Mind you they were put in an unenviable position by their coalition partners in that, if my understanding is right, it was the Lib-Dems who were largely responsible for drafting the package.

The mistake they made was to sign the pledge in the first place. Rather naive of them I thought. But then they didn't really expect to be in government at all.

As a former Lib-Dem candidate myself, I must admit to being disappointed. Not honourable behaviour from the honourable members.

[mat]

The mistake they made was to sign the pledge in the first place. Rather naive of them I thought. But then they didn't really expect to be in government at all.

Exactly.  Easy to pledge anything when you don't expect to have to honour it...

[Grandma]

Why can't businesses/industry cover the tuition fees of selected university students who gain the grades they require in the subjects they require and which make them employable by them?