Topic: Growing a winter garden

[goodlife]

Annie...just like eating lettuce leaves...you let them grow few inches and then run scissors over them...sometimes depending how high you cut it they re grow but if cut just above soil level...well then not..
Those shop bought cheap dried peas do germinate..well those over here anyway..and as they are only a £1 or so per box even if they don't re-grow..it's still cheap..
we eat the tender new shoot with stem and leaves as whole..nice...you can dry some by tasting some yours..what ever they are..just a growing tip.. ;)..taste little like pea...still crunchy..but tender like salad...fresh or just little steamed..yum..they are nice by just chucked into omelette and lightly cooked.. ;)

[GrannieAnnie]

Thank you, Anja. Now I understand. I've never seen them for sale in the grocery store.

[1066]

Thanks for the extra info about salads indoors - I think I would struggle without lights (and I don't have any), so I'll have to try and keep things as nice and snug as I can manage outside

1066  :)

[goodlife]

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I've never seen them for sale in the grocery store...over here they sell dried peas where all other dry beans, lentils and grains are..
I haven't seen any fresh pea shoots sold in salad bags though..
Do you eat soaked (and cooked) peas over there..in form of pea soup or mushy peas..?

[Jeannine]

I have done salad greens on windowsills through the winter, they get a bit leggy but that doesn't matter for baby greens, also done brassica leaves the same way.

XX Jeannine

[GrannieAnnie]

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I've never seen them for sale in the grocery store...over here they sell dried peas where all other dry beans, lentils and grains are..
I haven't seen any fresh pea shoots sold in salad bags though..
Do you eat soaked (and cooked) peas over there..in form of pea soup or mushy peas..?

Yes but we call it split pea soup. I learned the hard way- never make it in a pressure cooker. It ended up hanging from the ceiling in curtains of green gobs but tastes great cooked with a ham bone.

[GrannieAnnie]

Thanks for the extra info about salads indoors - I think I would struggle without lights (and I don't have any), so I'll have to try and keep things as nice and snug as I can manage outside

1066  :)

In an older post I mentioned growing salad greens under a glass storm window propped up with only a couple bricks. The lettuce didn't mind the winter winds blowing in and out- and it can get pretty bitter cold and icy here- but in Feb. I think it started growing again. That convinced me how tough greens can be. So don't be surprised if yours does very well given more protection. As I recall the variety I grew was "Red Sails".

[Jeannine]

The dried peas usually available in US stores are split or in the Asian stores you can get whole dried peas but they are small and  smooth not the wrinkled ones available in the UK. I have bought dried Marrofat peas in the US and can get them in Canada but only in the parts of stores that sell food from other countries, eg here in Canada and across the border in Washington State I can buy Batchelors for making mushies both regular and quick soak. I find if I want ti grow pea shoots it is just as easy to buy seeds for sowing but buy them  by the pound, just make sure you get the wrinkled ones.

XX Jeannine

[galina]

Great posts!

Turnips sown during July usually make good roots.  Turnips sown during August usually make roots to be harvested just before frost, depending on cultivar, and those plants that don't make roots survive well under fleece and then produce tons of greens in spring.  I used to throw away turnip greens and only eat the roots.  Then I read that people in some countries grow turnips only for their tops!  Gave it a try and love the tops.  If my August sown turnips are too late for root development, I don't mind at all.  

Other winter mainstays (apart from leeks, PSB, chard, collards etc) are broadleaf and frizzy endives and Chinese cabbage.  Both produce well into winter under cloches.  If the endives are sown late, they will suspend growth and then flourish in spring.  Fully grown endives don't tend to make it over winter under cloches like baby plants do.  But they can usually be harvested until Christmas.  I sow two batches.

Rocket and cress and American landcress are a must, also winter radish andl the orientals.  Mizuna is delightful in a salad, other orientals are more suited for quick cooking.  There are several salad leaf packets on sale with orientals in the mix.  Lettuce can be harvested for a while, but only the really small plants survive under cloches, bigger ones can be harvested up to Christmas and then tend to rot.  Overwintering spring Onions, Babbington's and three-cornered leek for garlicky and oniony flavours.

When I harvest my looseleaf lettuce seeds in August/September I shed a few in the corner of the greenhouse.  They germinate very early the following spring for early lettuces.





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[earlypea]

I would like to grow landcress and mustards, but I don't see how I can possibly squeeze them in into my rotation.  I did ask this once before somewhere but didn't get any real reply.  

Do you rotate them as brassicas, in which case I really don't have a square inch left for them or can you just put them in any old spare space, like I see some plotholders doing, and if that's OK - why?

[calendula]

the mustards are certainly brassicas  :)

[earlypea]

Sorry, I should add that I know they are classified as brassicas, otherwise I'll just get people telling me they're brassicas like last time (no offense Calendula, I should have said)

Question is why do people not seem to rotate them like brassicas, just stick them in any old place.  Are they not prone to the same pests and diseases?  If that's the case then I have places I can grow them, but I grow a heck of a lot of different big brassicas already so never have the space if I treat them like brassicas and rotate them accordingly. 

And for me, they're not as nice as those brassicas (kales, broccolis, cabbages etc) so are relegated to second class brassicas, which I don't have a bed for.

[calendula]

 ;D

rotation is great but not a crime if you bend the rules for a short time and even then you can go for years not having problems - at this time of year on my plots space is running out and I end up putting in what I need to just about anywhere - so I wouldn't worry about it

I only grow the mustards for salads (good green manure as well)

[galina]

I would like to grow landcress and mustards, but I don't see how I can possibly squeeze them in into my rotation.  I did ask this once before somewhere but didn't get any real reply.  

Do you rotate them as brassicas, in which case I really don't have a square inch left for them or can you just put them in any old spare space, like I see some plotholders doing, and if that's OK - why?

Earlypea,

as landcress and mustard are overwintering brassica crops and (in my case) lumped together with overwintering salads, endives etc, the priority for me is to stick them all together in a sheltered place in the garden or in the greenhouse, or somewhere where one of my large Geoff Hamilton type cloches will fit.  I put the overwintering salad cloches anywhere I can following a first crop.  This could be following the garlics or following the peas or following the potatoes, whichever of these happens to be grown in the sheltered spot in the garden that year.  I also sow them in the greenhouse, where the mixture of overwintering species provides sort of a crop rotation from the solanum monoculture, ie tomatoes and peppers, that people usually grow in their greenhouses.

Crop rotation is the ideal that forces us to make practical compromises.  Like in your case where you have too many brassica to fit the allocated space.  If overwintering crops need protection to succeed at all, then this requirement has priority over precise crop rotation.  Yes it is practical to fill a gap with something that is out of rotation, especially if it is only in the ground for a short while, like Calendula suggests.

[galina]

I forgot to mention Lamb's lettuce in my winter salad garden.  This requires no special protection at all, although it will stop growing through the darkest months of the year and carry on growing as soon as light levels permit in February and March.

Blanched Witloof chicory is another wonderful addition to winter salads.  The roots survive outside and get dug up as and when required.  I plant roots in a bucket of compost in the conservatory and cover with another bucket for blanching.

A few general remarks about winter salad gardening.  The limiting factor for a salad winter garden is not only low temperatures.  We can cloche with a double layer of fleece which is enough protection for most winter salading plants,  the bigger limiting factor is lack of light.  This determines for how long plants will stay dormant.

Lettuces and other salad plants can tolerate a slight frost, but will only actively grow if  light levels are sufficient and if the temperature is above +7C.  This means that during late December, January and early February (here) I can only pick sparingly, whereas during late March and April my winter salad garden grows back faster than I can pick and I could supply a restaurant with salad leaves.

During January and February my sprouter works overtime for additional salad ingredients.

 

[calendula]

so glad you mentioned the chicories - i grow loads and love the radicchio types especially the red/white and they are winter hardy and in fact the colder it gets the brighter the colours  8)

[grannyjanny]

The staging in my greenhouse is the metal 2 tier type with a lip on it. I water fom underneath with seed trays as it holds water for a time. I had a thought about getting some cheap thin wood & making them into sort of boxes which would hold compost & use those for growing. What do you all think please.

[goodlife]

You know those blue mushroom trays..shops normally just give them away..I line some of those with old compostbags..and they are deep enough for salad leaves...I've been given some deeper versions of those too..and been sowing some in them already.. ;)

[earlypea]

I forgot to mention Lamb's lettuce in my winter salad garden. 

Thanks for the clarification on rotation.

I was asking in a previous post about Lambs lettuce.  I have grown it, but as I explained I have no idea how it could ever make a dishful as it's so tiddly.  How do you manage to grow it in sufficient quantity? 

[galina]

I forgot to mention Lamb's lettuce in my winter salad garden.  

Thanks for the clarification on rotation.

I was asking in a previous post about Lambs lettuce.  I have grown it, but as I explained I have no idea how it could ever make a dishful as it's so tiddly.  How do you manage to grow it in sufficient quantity?  

You are welcome.

Two answers to this one.  There are varieties around that are larger - a rosette the size of the palm of a hand or like a nectarine (as a rosette is of course three dimensional).  But I have not found seed for such a cultivar, just seen pictures.  Italian varieties may be bigger.  As I say, I haven't yet got a definite answer on this one, but I am also after seed for such a larger variety,  for the same reasons you mention.  Anyone?  To a certain extent you can get larger plants by spacing them further apart, but mine are still quite small even then.

Secondly,  all my winter salads are mixed salads by definition, because I can never tell exactly how much I can harvest from the greenhouse or cloches and therefore grated carrot, apple sticks, sprouts etc make up any shortfall.  If I only have ten or twenty small plants to play with, then they are used as pretty garnish on top of the salad.