Topic: 2 squash questions

[Tin Shed]

Jeannine, you are a star - I was hoping you would reply :D
The potatoes and squash would be about 1 metre apart and I was thinking of perhaps putting somethimg between them - beans or corn perhaps - to provide some sort of barrier if they don't grow well together.
Do you think I would be able to train the Thelma Saunders up a trellis supporting the fruit as it grows?

[Sinbad7]

Jeannine, with the spacing of 10' is that between 2 pumpkins or between a pumpkin and any other plant?

My 2 cucumbers are in an 18' x 4'6" bed with just a quick growing row of lettuce in front of them, at the front of the bed, where the cue's are growing up at the back of the bed.  I planted the pumpkin about 4' away from the cue's in the middle of the bed, do you think I should move the pumpkin?

I'm training the cue's up fencing but I do tend to go to pot and they end up going everywhere, so knowing the gardener I am and when it gets hot I let all my plants do their own thing I am wondering if it would be better off somewhere else to start with.

The Patty Pan should be fine as I am hoping the broad beans will nearly be finished before it gets going so can have nearly a whole bed to itself.

[Jeannine]

 Tin Shed, you can train both those up a trellis, just tie it in as it grows. The Thelma Saunders vine will grow about 8 to 10 feet, not certain about the Twonga but it is one considered OK for trellis so should be similar..not certain  re length of vines on this one though.

Personally I wouldn't plant anything in between, they would be competing for nourishment..definatly not corn if you are growing upright because of the light, maybe a row of dwarf beans right at the far edge. I would guess your soil is in pretty good condition though and if quick growing beans you might have them out quite quickly.

Sinbad, between pumpkins.  No, don't move it, keep an eye on it and turn it away from where you don't want it to grow, I would let it run down the side length of your long bed, if it gets to the bottom, turn the leader around and let it grow back.

Pattypan will be fine,, just a widespread bush. I plant several  in a row  4 feet apart.. pick them when they are small, they can get to be quite big and they get fat to but not as tasty, and you won't get as many if you don't keep them picked. I start at about 1 1/2 to 2 ins and pick part of the stem with them, then cut through the middle and the stem as well in 1 cut,  baby squash cost a fortune in the shops, plants will immediately produce more flowers..but will stop if you don't pick.. look daily they can swell up very very fast.

XX Jeannine

[Tin Shed]

Jeannine, dwarf french beans I think are the answer - off to biscuit tin containing the bean collection to choose ;D
Thank you

[Sinbad7]

Many thanks for your help Jeannine.

Sinbad

[1066]

You mention distance too which is the biggest downfall  to newbies, crowding will decrease yeild by producing less female flowers,  with one or two exceptions , accepted distance for best yeild is 10 feet, I cramped down to 6 feet and managed to get reasonable yield in the UK but prior to going  over there I gave my plants the space they needed and got excellent results. In the UK I managed to get many late  varieties to maturity in Hull when my neighbours could not, this was by not cramping too much, I used 4 feet for bush types when ideal is 6 feet. I realise that most of us don't have the space for growing them at correct distances but newbies need to know that production will be lower.If folks are able to give the correct spacings and therefore giving the plant sufficient nourishment from roots, sun on eaves etc , they will get better yeild, less immature fruit at harvest, larger friut and much less disease. Mildew is delayed and the plant as more chance to finish. I have read many times here about poor yeild, small fruit, plants being unableto reach maturity,  and am convinced it is the planting distances.
XX Jeannine

Jeannine, thank you for such an informative post! What you say about distances is really interesting. For example you read all these books etc and they say give them 3ft or 1 metre, which is roughly what I did. I got lovely crops, which did ripen fully but I didn't get a bumper crop. So most plants gave me 2 or 3 pumpkins not the 4 or 5 the books tell you. So your theory about distances, which are significantly bigger than I've read before sounds a good un to me.
Mind you I did have plenty of pumpkins last year - and they lasted us well throughout the winter, so no complaints from me  :) But it's always nice to learn new stuff  :)

Once again thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and knowledge  :D

1066

[Jeannine]

Trouble is, the UK seed companies don't give enough info on squash, it is the same with corn.Sometimes it is like pulling hen's teeth trying to get info from them and there are so many variations, bush, trailing, (which gives the impression it will climb it grown upright,)semi trailing, open bush,they also give the impression that all pumpkins are big and long, that all winter squash vine..neither is true, they all have theor own needs and spacing, I quote what is the best for yeild  but even cheat when I plant as te space is rarely available,but if folks know what is ideal they can make an educated adaption. I get really cross when I read some of the descriptions regarding edibility too. T&M describe Turks Turban as having an excellent taste..you can eat it  and with added flavourings it will make decent soup,but basically it is an ornamental. I taste test mine just plain baked or steamed, and if you have room for only one this is important.Gourds are usually described as decorative yet some are very edible.   Butternut is not the name of a squash but a variety like acorn or kabocha, there a dozens of varieties of butternut and to complicate things still further some are trailing some are bush and some semi trailing. I guess that in the scheme of things squash and corn are realively new to home growing in the UK, I just get annoyed  when insufficient info causes losses or wastes a season, especially when they push a type that clearly would struggle in the UK without special treatment..

Getting off soap box now.

XX Jeannine

[1066]

but if folks know what is ideal they can make an educated adaption.

I think that sums it up nicely Jeannine  :) And if it wasn't for sites like this then I know I'd have struggled much more than I have. At least on here I stand a good chance of getting accurate information from experienced growers!

And I know what you mean about Turks Turban being described as an eater  ::) Anyway, I think its healthy to get on your soap box (every now and then)  ;)

[Crystalmoon]

Wow Im so glad i just read about Turks Turban not being that good to eat.....was planning to buy some at a plant sale this week & dont want to give the prescious allotment space to something that isnt going to be super tasty!

Jeannine could you possibly give me a short list of say the top 5 in your opinion for tastiness? I would very much appreciate it  ;D
Im learning so much from this thread, thank you so much     

[Jeannine]

My personal winter squash  favourites mmm well..some from   delicata family,that is, Delicata,Sugar Loaf,Sweet Dumpling, all pretty much the same for taste and size although shape is different .

I am very fond of the  blues which are mostly Australian, Blue Magic, Blue Ballet, Queensland Blue,Triamble,,but not Jarrahdale it doesn't have the flavour of the others for me.Also  blue and good is Guatamalen Blue and Sibleys AKA Pikes Peak.The Australian blues can be smallish or huge depending on the variety although many of them have had smaller versions made over the years eg Blue ballet is a scaled down version of Blue Hubbard.

The Japanese Kabocha types are also very good  and example would be Sunshine.

Plus the odd one here and there. eg Red Kuri, Potimarron, and an Acorn one called Honey Bear.

I am not a big lover of butternuts, many are extremely  good but I found them really variable  in the Uk so I  rarely grew them while there and went for something more consistent. However they are readily  available and worth growing as some of them are now in bush form and take up a much smaller space and they are good keepers.

For Pumpkins, I no longer grow the big decorative ones but I do grow them for pumpkin pie, variety is important so I prefer  Sugar Pie or bay Pam which are not stringy and are very sweet and dense.

Summer squash which includes the courgettes my first choice streets ahead of the others is the Lebanese "cousa types"  of courgette eg Magda and then I like the old Yellow Crookneck variety of summer squash.

Hope this helps.

Xx Jeannine

[Crystalmoon]

Thank you so very much Jeannine I really appreciate you taking the time to give such a detailed reply. Im going to hunt for seeds for some of the ones you mention & look forward to next years squash growing experiment on my allotment ;D
This is only my 3rd year growing veggies. Im growing green & yellow courgettes, the orangey skinned butternut squash & pattypan this year but would really like to be more adventurous next year. I dont have a very big plot but may have a year off from growing potatoes next year to allow alot more space for squash beds.
xJane   

[Jeannine]

Let me know if you get stuck, I have pretty much all of the seeds I mentioned  and you have to try the cousa one for sure XX Jeannine

[1066]

I'd 2nd trying the lebanese types - if I'm thinking of the right one that is! Mine are white, very subtle and delicate in flavour, and a firm favourite in this house  :)

[Jeannine]

The Mazda  cousa courgette is very pale green with  white speckles and is not long , a more tapered squat blunt ended one. It is used for a special Lebanese dish  called Kousa .My best friend here comes from Lebanese stock and she says the true one is green. The texture is a a bit more dense and dry than a regular courgette She does tell me about a white marrow though,could well be a longer grown courgette, but I do also have seeds for a Lebanese marrow which is creamy white.

You can see the seeds and pictures at Vesey's in Canada or Johnny's in the US, sorry I don't have the links.

 XX Jeannine

[1066]

yes it sounds very similar - and I've just had to google the recipe for Kousa, sounds delicious  :)

[Jeannine]

Would you like a few Kousa XX Jeannine

[Wilder]

this has been an incredibly interesting and informative thread.

I almost hesitate to ask, but since none of my really stoopid questions elicited naught but kindness and good advice before...........................gulp.....

Can I grow my courgettes in large pots if I keep them well watered and fed????

I'm growing Black Beauty,  PattyPan, yellow scallop, golden zuchini and Di Nizza. It's an experiment and taste test year for me and I'll have plenty of excess for neightbours and friends no doubt! It's a question of space, as I've kept the last two raised beds I just built for my wintersquashes (crown prince and hoooligan kindly donated from you guys!!!)

They are 50 litre pots

[Squashfan]

Great thread, guys! I've had some luck with some of the French types over here in southeast UK, Musquee de Provence in particular seemed to really enjoy my plot. I agree with jeannine on the space thing - squashes need and want their space, so give it to them, along with tons of water and a heapload of manure. Unlike jeannine, I've had some good luck with the butternuts, I think the Waltham's a good one.
As for patty pans, love them. I tend to stuff them with couscous and veggies, add a bit of cheese and roast the lot. Yum.

[Tin Shed]

I got my Lebanese courgette seeds from a mixed pack of Johnson seeds in Wilkinsons - and thoroughly recommend them as they are the perfect shape for stuffing!

[Jeannine]

Actually I think basic Waltham's butternut is the perhaps the best of the butternuts. There are so many that have been grown from this one but I think in this case the phrase"if it ain't broke ,don't fix it" is very apt. I can see why breeders would try to make a better butternut eg bush, better disease resistant, longer keeping,shorter season etc but I think like the tomato growers who have gone for much the same changes they have lost taste in the process. So good old Walthams in my opinion  is far better for tatse than Barbara, Harrier , Hunter etc...if I do grow a butternut, this is the one, it is reliable, consistent, grows well, keeps well and the taste is better than the newer ones .

Wilder, yes you can grow your bush courgettes in pots, you may not get the yeild that you would from the ground but with correct watering and a feed or two they will produce well. I grow them in very big pots..5 qallon old buckets or half barrells.

XX Jeannine