Topic: 2 squash questions

[earlypea]

My gem rolet are ready to go out, but they are considerably weedy looking, with seed leaves half the size of my other squashes.  Is this normal and how they start out in life or are they sad specimens not worth the space?  Sown in different batches.

....My Cornell's Delicata either have a kind of 'bloom' on the largest leaves (like on plums) or mildew, they look chalky.  Neither has been dry and they were grown in different batches.  Again, is that normal?

I only ask because I am now flooded with squashes because I had a lot of problems earlier on getting them going (claggy, award winning compost from B&Q - never again  ::) ) and space and manure are limited so if they're not good I won't use them.

Thanks

[Jeannine]

The plants are smaller than the Delicata and the seed leaves would be too, I can't advise you properly with out a picture but it is amazing how quick they pick up once in good ground.

If the colouring on the leaves of your Delicata is a sort of iridescent glow don't worry about it, it is not uncommon with some varieties even though it might trouble you they will be fine.

If you are stuck for space and have to forgo some I would hang on to the Delicata as they are a super squash.

XX Jeannine

[earlypea]

Cheers Jeannine

If you are stuck for space and have to forgo some I would hang on to the Delicata as they are a super

I know, I'm mainly growing them on your earlier recommendation  :P

One other thing, a couple of squashes have become stressed for whatever reason (pots seem big enough  :-\ ) and developed a couple of small immature flowers - are they worth pursuing or not in your opinion?  Unfortunately both of my Queensland Blue have just done that whilst waiting to be planted out.

[1066]

Hi - a couple of my Potimarron's have produced tiny flowers, only planted them today, and I was wondering what to do about them, so I'll sit back and wait for the experts  ;)  :)

[Jeannine]

Just ignore the early flowers the plant will be fine, they won't pollinate. XX Jeannine

[Sinbad7]

Hi all

How much room do you need to grow a squash and I guess it would be the same for a pumpkin too?

Have never grown either but a plot holder gave me one of each and wondered where they would do best with limited space now.

Sinbad

[Jeannine]

I can answer your question if you can tell me what type they are especially the squash, there is a huge difference in space for some. XX Jeannine

[earlypea]

Just ignore the early flowers the plant will be fine, they won't pollinate. XX Jeannine

I'm so pleased to hear that!  The full squash dream is still on then....  (thanks)

[PurpleHeather]

Jeannine  is the accredited expert here so I would go with her advice

[Sinbad7]

Thanks Jeannine, the squash is a patty pan and the pumpkin just a pumpkin.

[1066]

Just ignore the early flowers the plant will be fine, they won't pollinate. XX Jeannine

I'm so pleased to hear that!  The full squash dream is still on then....  (thanks)

And phew from me too   :D I haven't seen this happen before - oh well live and learn!
thanks Jeannine  :)

[FennelandFern]

Hi Jeannine,

Your squash knowledge is formidable! I'm sure you've learnt most of it from working hard on your plot, but are there any books you'd suggest?

Issy

[earlypea]

Do you know what causes these miniature flowers by any chance?  Like 1066 I don't remember having it happen before either.

What I have noticed is that this has happened to two types on the days of our sudden heat waves, so today they've been put out under a bush while I went to work and no new occurrences.

Is that it?

[Jeannine]

Sinbad, your pattypan is a summer squash treat it like a courgette for growing and harvesting. It will be a bush plant and will  not grow long vines. Mature spread will  cover  about 3 foot x3foot, this will be large leaves, the squash will be  nestled in the centre. Fruit could be white, pale green, bright yellow or even multicoloured depending on the variety of pattypan( a term used a bit like Hoover for vacuum cleaners) there is a variety actually called Pattypan though.

Pumpkin..just a pumpkin !!  Well pumpkins can be anything from the size of an apple to something that would need a wheelbarrow to move it..so let is presume it is a Halloween Jack or Lantern type.

The bit growing in the ground is not much, but it will send out vines that can grow  to 30 feet, so be prepared to place the plant where you can direct the vine. You can train it to the side of a path, across a lawn or though corn plants or fruit bushes..or just let it go if you have lots of room, it will grow long and put out lots of big leaves whatever you do.

Issy, the best book I know about squash is Amy Goldmans Book called The Compleat Squash(her spelling) Try the library before you buy..it is expensive but the pictures are superb. It is written for the US though and the growing conditions are different plus Amy has unlimited space and money so some of her ideas are not too realistic for small growers, but it is a great book for a Christmas wish list. There are  others but I find they are quickly out of date for varieties.I have been interested..besotted actually by squash for many years and as  with any interest , we tend to collect info from all over.


I don't have a technical answer for the small flowers but it is generally thought caused  by stress,we see it when plants are still in their pots and being held back before being  planted out , usually because of the weather,  the plants feel in jeopardy and  need to reproduce. The first  flowers on squash and pumpkins are always male and they will fall off...aahh  no probs more will soon arrive followed by the ladies. Females have a real tiny bulge at the base which is an unpollinated squash, the boys don't. The unpollinated ones will fall off, the  pollinated ones   bulge will begin to grow.. You can eat squash flowers by the way, large ones can be stuffed small ones tossed in a salad, even if they have tiny fruit on you can use them, they are all edible.

Have fun..

XX Jeannine

[Sinbad7]

Many thanks for your reply Jeannine.  Delighted with the answer for the pattypan but a bit amazed about the pumpkin.

I did plant them both and gave plenty of room to the pattypan but thought I would plant the pumpkin in the bed with the cucumbers and they could gallop away together but by the sound of it my poor cue's are going to get overtaken by the pumpkin.  At least the cue's have a head start so probably all is not lost.

Sinbad

[chriscross1966]

All the maximas:- pumpkins, buttercups etc will pretty much swamp any moschata, agyrosperma or pepo except for those that can climb up something to escape it. Few maximas climb though some hybrids will, Bon-bon leaps to mind. Let your cucumbers climb some netting and they should survive and crop fine, otherwise, like one of my poor Uchiki Kuri's last year, they are doomed....... Personally I try to give the pumpkins a gouud three feet of exclusion from anything except another pumpkin... the better behaved squashes (all the hybrid moschata butternuts, Winter Festival) can go a lot closer.... There are always exceptions though, there's a whole load of aggressive italian moschata's I could see outgrowing most pumpkins short of a monster like Sumo or Atlantic Giant.... Violine, Tromboncino,    Tromba di Albenga and Lunga di Napoli all leap to mind..... all but the last climb happily, and Lunga is a monster of a squash, tips the scales at over 50lb regularly, IIRC the biggest moschata by a fair distance

chrisc

[1066]

.....and Lunga is a monster of a squash, tips the scales at over 50lb regularly, IIRC the biggest moschata by a fair distance
chrisc

The size of the leaves on mine are already monsterous - dwarfing anything else in sight! I'm going to sit back and watch with interest and intrepidation!!

1066

[antipodes]

I plant my pumpkins so they can trail down the sides of the plot, or around the compost box :) As the foliage dies off, the plot will have started to empty and you can tuck the fruit into the plot to mature.

I grow Queensland Blue, Do grow one or two, because they are extra-tasty and the fruits last a log time in storage.

[Tin Shed]

May I add another question please ;)
I have read that pumpkins/squash and potatoes do not grow well next to each other - has anyone got any experience of this?
I have more plants - Thelma Saunders and Twonga to go in, but there is only space next to the spuds......do I take the risk and hope I get a good crop or try to find space elsewhere?

[Jeannine]

Chiris, you post has puzzled me,   I am sorry to contradict  you but apart from a couple of exceptions squash and pumpkins actually don't climb, they can be trained upright but are not climbers as such, they don't grab and hang on.

Not all the maximas are large and some do have shorter vines.

The other point is most of the pumpkins are not in the maxima family, they are pepo,examples are Jack o Lanterns , Howden and  Conneticut Field , these three also happen to be the most commercial grown types, the ones you will see in the shops for carving  and most easily recognised as pumpkins.

Atlantic Giant is a  maxima, produced way back from Jaune de Paris  as all maxima pumpkins are but apart from  a few  and their AKA's most people are growing pumkins from the pepo family.

You mention distance too which is the biggest downfall  to newbies, crowding will decrease yeild by producing less female flowers,  with one or two exceptions , accepted distance for best yeild is 10 feet, I cramped down to 6 feet and managed to get reasonable yield in the UK but prior to going  over there I gave my plants the space they needed and got excellent results. In the UK I managed to get many late  varieties to maturity in Hull when my neighbours could not, this was by not cramping too much, I used 4 feet for bush types when ideal is 6 feet. I realise that most of us don't have the space for growing them at correct distances but newbies need to know that production will be lower.If folks are able to give the correct spacings and therefore giving the plant sufficient nourishment from roots, sun on eaves etc , they will get better yeild, less immature fruit at harvest, larger friut and much less disease. Mildew is delayed and the plant as more chance to finish. I have read many times here about poor yeild, small fruit, plants being unableto reach maturity,  and am convinced it is the planting distances.

Tin Shed, I am not aware of many really important  problems that potatoes and squash have together  other than scab , the virus of which affects the squash leaves , I guess it  may go down to potato tubers,however I never saw this in the UK on any of my plants. One consideration  if the squash leaves  covered the potato leaves  this  might make a canopy effect that would hold moistureand  may encourage blight in your spuds. Plus they are both heavy feeders.

Thelma Saunders is an acorn squash and doesn't grow very big, 2 pounds or so , a few of the acorns are an exception and will grow on closer planting distance,  but they will vine still and need space to run, closer spacing is a reason why many people grow  them  plus it's  excellent taste. I would however plant them in a row and  then train the vines to all grow in ths same direction  as if running to a finish line..does that make sense!

XX Jeannine