Topic: Frank Digging In

[grandad]

My allotment neighbour Frank was last year served with a notice to quit by our comittee he took the advice from Unwashed and others to stay put and let them seek a possesion order. The committee has now wrote to Frank and told him to hand his keys in and not to come onto the site again or they will deem him to be trespassing but I cannot understand how he can be trespassing when a Judge has not granted them a possesion order and I thought that there is no such thing as trespsass law its surely a civil matter and nothing to do with the police.

[davyw1]

There is such a thing as civil trespass a good example of this is......if i was to walk into your house without  causing damage ,burglary or rape and with no intention of attempting or indenting to do any of the mentioned then no criminal offense is committed and nothing can be done about it is civil offense.

Presuming that his rent is paid up to date he should stand fast as no authority can remove him IE police if called.

As for a notice to quit its nothing more than a bluff which can be called by an eviction order after three warnings in writing have been given followed by instructions from a solicitor informing him that if he does not leave then an eviction order will be sought and he will be bound to pay any costs

What the committee can do is when he goes to pay his rent is allow him to pay it and at the same time serve him with a notice informing him that his lease will not be renewed then he has to go at the end of the lease.

This may interest a few others if your committee want, they can increase the rent of individual allotments by the square yard, meter. pole, rod etc.

[Unwashed]

Hi Grandad

The Committee can huff and puff as much as they want, it changes nothing.  While he has his site keys and while he continues to occupy his plot it's his.  Technically, if the committee were to change the site lock then that would probably be a valid eviction, but if he doesn't choose to give his keys back and he can still get to his plot then it's still his.  

You're quite right that it's a civil matter, and tresspass is a civil matter too.  However, if the committee try physically to prevent him from getting to his plot by pushing him or such like then that's likely to be assault and at the very least a disturbance of the peace and he needs to call the police who have a duty to attend.  They should then tell everyone to behave themselves and sort it out in (civil) court.  It's important that Frank behaves reasonably, he can't just lamp the chaiman because he's in his way, he has to be peaceful.  Frank might do well to pop into the police station and explain the situation and that he's fearful of being assaulted by the committee.

It's really down to Frank's resolve.  And there is always the chance that the committee will get a possession order and Frank will have to pay costs.

Ed: Should have added:  If the committee try and mess with his plot, like taking down his shed or burning his bean poles, then that's criminal damage, and even threatening to do it is a criminal offence and he should then involve the police.

[Digeroo]

that would probably be a valid eviction

???

[Unwashed]

that would probably be a valid eviction

???

Here's where it gets tricky.  While Frank is in possession the plot is his, but if the committee can deprive him of possession peacefully then it's not his.  Housing has special rules so it doesn't help to use a house as an example, but take a warehouse.  If the landlord serves an eviction notice on the tenant and then when the tenant is out the landlord changes all of the locks so the tenant can't get in he's successfully evicted him and he doesn't need a possession order.  But it has to be peaceful.

So if the committee changed the site lock and gave everyone but Frank a new key then Frank would probably have been evicted.  If that was a possibility he would have had to make an application to the court himself before the notice expired and ask the court to grant releif against the notice.

Whether someone has been evicted or not is something only a judge can definitively decide.  And all of what I've described are general principles only because the judge has significant discretion to decide what's equitable.

[davyw1]

QUOTE UNWASHED[ However, if the committee try physically to prevent him from getting to his plot by pushing him or such like then that's likely to be assault and at the very least a disturbance of the peace and he needs to call the police who have a duty to attend.}

I he is pushed or shoved it only amounts to common assault to which the police will not take any action other than recommend a private prosecution, but if he was to accidentally fall and cut or bruise himself after being pushed then it ABH that they will do something about.
Unfortunately breach of the peace must be found committing by a police officer unless he considers that another breach of the peace may be committed there is not a lot he can do.

The same people who designed the giraffe formed a committee

[cornykev]

So why do they want him off, I missed that bit.    ;D ;D ;D

[Psi (Pronounced 'Si'!)]

doesnt sound very pleasant.  What did Frank do.....

[grandad]

Frank has done nothing wrong and he has not been given a reason for his eviction notice.
(The latest) Last night I had a letter from our mob of a committee informing me that if I allow frank on to my plot again I will recieve my notice he was helping me to prepare my beds last Saturday because I am disabled and usually need a bit of help at the start of the growing season.
Grandad

[Robert_Brenchley]

Sounds a very unpleasant situation all round. You probably need to get rid of the committee, but is there anyone who could help meanwhile?

I know what it feels like as I've been through it myself after being unconstitutionally drummed out of the site Association for 'bringing it into disrepute', ie having a minor disagreement with a member of the former administration who then blew it up into a major feud. As soon as they were gone I was reinstated and invited to stand for the committee again.

[elvis2003]

This is awful,how can they evict him giving no reason? he sounds like a good plot holder/neighbour if he is helping you out,are there any other plotholders that will support him too...you can join forces?? you are a good chum for sticking up for him!

[davyw1]

Grandad, Print this off and give it to Frank and tell him to present it to the committee, and mention about seeing a solicitor about the amount of stress, worry and illness they have caused, bet they have a change of mind

Forfeiture of a lease under the Law of Property Act 1925
16 August 2009
Forfeiture of a lease
Forfeiture means the act of losing or surrendering something as a penalty for a mistake or fault or failure to perform etc.
A landlord usually reserves the right to forfeit a lease. Before a landlord may exercise a right of re-entry or forfeiture of lease the provisions of s.146(1) of the Law of Property Act 1925 must be complied with.
This section applies to most breaches of covenant save for:
1. non-payment of rent (s.146(11)) and
2. the cases specified in s.146(8) and (9) for example, a mining lease or insolvency in special cases.
Under s.146(1) the landlord must serve upon the tenant a notice:-
i. specifying the breach complained of;
ii. if capable of remedy requiring the tenant to remedy it; and
iii. in any case, requiring the tenant to make compensation in money for the breach.
Upon the service of a s.146 notice an application for relief against forfeiture may be made.

[Unwashed]

Davy, it's not forfeiture, the committee are ending the tenancy with a 12 month notice to quit.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Is this the site committee? If so, raise it at the AGM and chellenge them there. 12 months gives you time for that. Better, get rid of them and vote in a new lot.

[davyw1]

Davy, it's not forfeiture, the committee are ending the tenancy with a 12 month notice to quit.

AAAGH that bit i missed

Even so a 12 month notice to quit is not withstanding if all issues against him have been corrected so an eviction order would have to be aplied for.without grounds and as you have said no judge will do that

I would test their knowledge and still present the print out he has nothing to loose. Also mention the fact that they would have to pay compensation for his crops and work done and whatever else he has put on the allotment.

If the man has done nothing wrong then then he should try every trick and bluff he can

[Unwashed]

Even so a 12 month notice to quit is not withstanding if all issues against him have been corrected so an eviction order would have to be aplied for.without grounds and as you have said no judge will do that

I don't know.  I'd like that to be true, but I think the landlord has every right to end a tenancy agreement without necessarily having to justify the reason.  If you could argue that the tenancy was being ended for some unlawful reason, like if Grandad was being discriminated against because of his disability, then you'd have an argument, but otherwise not I think.

Like Robert says, what you want is an ethical and equitable committee, but if the site in general isn't bothered that's not going to happen.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I don't think any site committe should ever be given the power to evict, but unfortunately it does happen.

[:(]

Im surprised anyone can comment on the rights or wrongs of the eviction with less than half the facts. The *evictee* hasnt explianed and neither has the committee so all there is (no disrespect to Grandad) is a bit of secondhand info. Perhaps he has been theiving, he wouldnt want to talk about it and the committee shouldnt. Or maybe he lamped someone or threatened someone or vandalised somehting. Or maybe hes had umpteen warnings about not cultivating his plot. Sometimes evicting someone is actually the right thing to do and committees shouldnt have to be lawyers to do it but in this case we dont know so cant say whether its right or wrong.

[grandad]

Weequinee.
I can assure you Frank has not done any of the things you suggest and I usually agree with you that there are two sides to an argument but in this case it`s not true. I have only Known Frank for about ten years and in all that time I have witnessed him helping new plot holders and if anyone had a project he would be first there to help. He came across a 12x8 greenhouse one day for sale he, knew one of our plot holders wanted one so he paid out £100.00 for it the chap couldn`t pay him so he accepted £10.00 per week of him and this is one of the people who have signed his eviction notice.
Grandad

[Unwashed]

weequinie, everyone's entitled to their rights whether in our personal judgement they deserve them or not.  If the committee are right then they're right, but i wouldn't want Frank to lose his plot because he didn't know how to defend his rights.

But I'm very suspicious when someone is evicted through notice to quit.  If they've done something wrong then the process is to forfeit the lease.  If someone is kicked off through a notice to quit it's because the committee had some other reason not to want them on site such as Robert's unfortunate experience.  I would very much like to see allotment tenancy agreements restricting the ability of the committee to use the notice to quit for the very limited times when the plot is required for something else.  But it is in the nature of people with power to hoard it.