Topic: BROTHER AND SISTER SHARING A PLOT

[grandad]

My brother in law and his sister have worked an allotment together for some years .Sadly my brother in law passed away a few months ago and the plot was in his name,now his sister has approached the committee asking if she could take over his allotment and keep it in the same condition as when her brother was alive but she has been told to take all his belongings (shed greenhouses tools etc off site ) it is a self managed site so there is no point approaching the council has anyone got any ideas.
GRANDAD.

[Jeanbean]

So sorry to hear that your brother in law has passed away and that now his sister is being told to leave the plot. This is something that I have heard off before. Personally, I think it is unfair and callous at such a sensitive time. As they both worked and kept the plot it will have some poignant memories for his sister and may hurt her terribly to have the plot taken away in such a manner. Why do managers/ land owners take such a stance? If his sister is willing to keep the plot up to scratch I can't see the problem. I have no idea of how she stands legally but I am sure that Unwashed and others will be along soon to advise. Thinking of you both
JB

[elvis2003]

sorry to hear the sad news. i also have never heard of this,does she have a tenancy agreement to look at,and see if there is anything in there to support her wish to keep the plot? is the site affiliated to the NSALG,as they will be able to help too. how rotten of them to be so callous,as jeanbean said.how on earth is she expected to remove a shed and greenhouse,very unfair. i hope you find some help here,thoughts to all of you
rach
x

[Trevor_D]

It does sound as if whoever is managing the site is being a little insensitive, to say the least.

One of our older member asked last year if the plot could be taken by his daughter, who often came down with him to help (although he still intends to come when he can). To us, that was no problem.

But then, if one of our long-time members had died, several of us would have attended the funeral, so would have been in touch with the situation.

[davyw1]

A tenancy should be allowed to pass to a direct relative

[Old bird]

I don't agree that the tenancy should be able to be passed on because someone dies. An allotment plot is not the same as a home or property it is a garden.

I think that if they want to take joint responsibility for a plot to put their names on together - when they are both actively working the plot - then when and if one of them dies - the other automatically takes the tenancy in their single name.

It is a sad time though and it is a shame that they didn't sort this out before one of them died.  I would think that the sister would be allowed to take over - if they point out that she worked the plot with him and other neighbouring plot owners back her up.

Old Bird
Good luck to her anyway.

[kt.]

Our rules do not allow 'helpers' to take on a plot should the plotholder pass away or decide just to give up the plot.  Exception to this is that we do allow it to be passed from father to son, mother to daughter etc.  Immediate family only.  Ask around on the site,  see if any others have inherited their plot this way.  We have some plots that are on the 3rd & 4th generation of the same family.

[BAK]

I agree with Old Bird. It is not a possession that you have the right to hand on.

However, a modicum of common sense and humanity among those in charge of the site would not go amiss.

We have just had a slightly different case. The plot was in the husband's name and was reasonably well tended. Unfortunately, the couple have split up and the husband is no longer interested in the plot. The wife asked to retain the plot and the council agreed in this case. I think that if the plot had been neglected the outcome would probably have been different.

[emmy1978]

However, a modicum of common sense and humanity among those in charge of the site would not go amiss.

They must know her on the site? It seems very cold to me.

[Squash64]

Sorry to hear about your brother in law.

Our site is self-managed too, but the Council rules say that if a plot becomes vacant because of the tenant's death then it must be offered to any member of the tenant's family who wishes to take over. 

Has the sister checked the rules issued by the Council?  There might be something there about what should happen to a plot when a tenant dies.  Even if the site is self-managed, I think I would still approach the Council and ask for their view on it.

[1066]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I think Squash's idea about talking to the council as well is a good one. And once I'd got some more info I'd also start in on a bit of a campaign - contact the local press, my local Councillor etc, try and drum up some support locally.

Wishing you well

1066

[reddyreddy]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I think Squash's idea about talking to the council as well is a good one. And once I'd got some more info I'd also start in on a bit of a campaign - contact the local press, my local Councillor etc, try and drum up some support locally.

Wishing you well

1066

I agree. Before doing this has she tried writing a letter explaining how involved she was and not having her name on the paperwork was a mere technicality, perhaps go for an emotional persuasion before a legal one? Good luck x

[Unwashed]

Hi grandad

The best hope is that the committee do the decent thing, but assuming they don't:

If the brother gave the tenancy to someone in his will then whoever he gave it to could asign it to her - they just write her a letter telling her the tenancy is hers, and she gives a copy of the letter and will to the committee.  It's worth a try, because it would confuse the hell out of the committee.

If she can show that she paid some of the rent then she has a reasonable claim to keep the tenancy.

Either way, without a possession order from the court all the comittee can do is bluster, and the longer they delay, the better her chances are.

She's probably weakened her case if she's asked the committee to take over the tenancy, because it admits that she's just a trespasser, so she needs to write to them again explaining that she was mistaken and that she is in fact already the tenant because either she inherited it or because she co-owned, and would they ammend their records so that she received the bill in future.  It'll give them something to think about.

Thing is, she probably doesn't have a very good right to keep the tenancy and it'll be a bit of a challenge to make the argument convincingly, so there's a reasonable chance the committee will get possession if they apply to the court, and a chance then that she'll have to pay their court costs too - £several hundred potentially.  Still, it costs her nothing to take it to the wire and they might just blink first.

[Old bird]

Unwashed - you are not on the same wavelength as us!

You are talking about home tenancies and property law which has nothing to do with allotment law.

You cannot "Will" your allotment to anyone - you do not "own" the tenancy as a right.  You are "allowed" to use the land for growing veg etc but that is all.  If you sign as "joint tenants" then you each have the same rights as a "single" name tenant.  Also you do not have "rights" similar to those of property ownership/rental this is a completely different ball game which is why we pay so little "rent" per year!

But for goodness sake don't get all heated and talk of "inherited tenancy" and the like!

Grandad - Take it easy and write to the committee or council explaining the situation - I am sure they are not ogres - and will understand the situation.

Old Bird

 ::)

[asbean]

Bit of publicity in the local press wouldn't go amiss  ??? ??? ???

[Unwashed]

You do not "own" the tenancy as a right.  You are "allowed" to use the land for growing veg etc but that is all.

OB, You're thinking of a licence, but an allotment tenancy is a lease - exclusive possession == lease. 

[Old bird]

Yes on technical terms you may be right Unwashed but a "Lease" "Licence" are much the same and can be determined by a number of factors and death of a "tenant" is one of them as "they (the tenant)" are unable to carry out the terms of the lease/licence ie maintain the plot.

There are no "ownership" rights to an allotment - you have tenancy rights - and they are applicable to the "tenant" only they are not transferable to other members of the family as a "right".  The owner of the land remains in ownership at all times and can (as sometimes happens) when a site is closed down (as has happened in London to make way for the Olympics).  There is no continuing right to those allotments howevery long they have been "leased" to owners of familys in the past.

There are some plots "up North"! where they were purchased and you could buy into and sell on these plots as the land was owned by the allotment committe or whatever they would call it. But where they are owned by a Council, Private Landlord or Company they remain always in the ownership of the "Owners" and are not allowed to be given, passed on to family relatives, or Willed to anyone.

You have exclusive possession of an allotment plot for however long you want it if you keep to all the rules, regulations and maintenance aspects in your name (and joint if required) for as long as you want.  They are not "transferable" to someone you "designate".

Old Bird

[Robert_Brenchley]

It's quite normal to allow transfer to a close relative, so I'd have thought a bit of campaigning would have a good chance!

[Old bird]

I agree with you Robert I think that that is definitely the way forward.  I don't think it should take much persuasion either - as she has been doing it for many years and the plot neighbours will back up her claim.

O B

[grandad]

Thanks to for your comments I have taken on board some of your suggestions and will try them to see what transpires.It was one of my brother in laws last wishes that we try to keep his allotment in the family. We on our site are told that we cannot have shared tenancies and only one name can be on your lease. But if you are a committee member you can have one your plots put in your wifes name but any other person who approaches the subject is told its against the rules.