Topic: advice please, should I change my mind?

[Squash64]

When people enquire about having a plot on our site I always meet them first before I put their name on the waiting-list.  This gives me some idea about how much time they will be able to spend and what size of plot to offer them when one becomes available.

While I was on holiday some months ago, our chairman added someone's name to the waiting-list.  I thought he had met the man and spoken about the work involved in having a plot but it turns out he hadn't, he just took his details over the phone.

This bloke had reached the top of the list so I invited him to come and look at a half-plot that has just become available.  After speaking to him for a short time it became obvious that even a half-plot would be too much for him. 

We didn't do any of the paperwork when he came down and I told him to come and see me during the week.  He didn't come or contact me and it's over a week now.

I'm a bit undecided now about what to do IF he does turn up.  Should I tell him that I've changed my mind and he can have a quarter plot, not a half?
Or no plot at all? Or stick to the half I've offered him?

I have lots of people desperate for even a quarter plot so if I only gave him a quarter, it would leave the other part for someone who is keen to start.  I feel a bit awful about changing my mind once I've offered him the half plot but once I've done the paperwork it's a long process to evict him.

I would love to hear other's opinions on this.

Problems, problems......

[plot51A]

Suggest you wait another week and see if he contacts you. If he doesn't, write and say that the offer is withdrawn as he hasn't followed up. If he does, suggest you be straight with him and say that during your meeting you felt he could only manage a quarter plot, would he like that? If not, again no go.
Thats my thoughts - hope it may help.

[shirlton]

Well Betty if I were the man and I had been waiting for a plot I would have been down to see you A.S.P cos I would be that keen to make a start. If I were you I would wait perhaps for another week and if he turns up after that you could tell him that being as he didn't come during the week you assumed that he didn't really want it.OR you could just ask him if he would mind sharing the half plot with someone seeing as there was a waiting list and perhaps if he was doing well could take on a bigger one in future. You never know it might be just what he wants to hear. Hope you get it sorted soon Betty.

[Sparkly]

I'd be interested in how 'you' decide what size plot someone can cope with? I know people who are not in work, but don't keep their 1/2 plot in order and those that are working fulltime with families and manage to keep 1 or 2 allotments weedless!

[twinkletoes]

I agree with Shirlton - if I had been waiting for a plot and it came up - I'd be pestering you all the time about when could I start.   I also think it is possible to work out how "committed" someone might be to working their plot just by talking to them - finding out a bit about them and what other hobbies a commitments they have and their aspirations and reasons for wanting a plot.
twinkletoes 

[shirlton]

Knowing BettyI don't think that for one minute she would just weigh someone up and tell them what they could have. It would be more of a discussion as to how much time they were able to devote to keeping the plot in good order. I wish that more folks were asked the question and perhaps we wouldnt be surrounded by weed ridden plots that are just waiting for a nice breeze to blow their seed onto ours.

[Sparkly]

...am not trying to criticise, just interested  :)

Most of the people on our site, who then don't cultivate and full of good intentions at the beginning. I haven't met many people who say "I can only come down for 1 hour per week" at the start. They seem to come alot at the beginning and then tail off...

[Old bird]

Whoa!  

I am sure there must be some way of contacting this person other than waiting for him to turn up.  He must have an address and possibly a phone number.  

The thing I am most surprised about it how you decide who is to get a plot or not!  No disrespect but surely just because someone doesn't come accross as the perfect plot holder then they don't get a plot - having been on the list or not!!

This person may be waiting for further contact or you may already have managed to put him off!  He may have family problems - and he may be one of those people that do not come accross well when "interviewed".  He may be waiting for you to contact him.

I am surprised that you have so much say - obviously I understand you need to ascertain how much space to give them - but I am very surprised at the amount of power that  one person has over other people's lives.


No doubt your allotments are weed free as you have managed to weed out the unsuitable allotment holders before they even get to turn over a sod!

Old Bird

 :o
Old Bird

[elvis2003]

squash,why didnt you do the paperwork there and then,if he was so keen wouldnt he just have signed up on the spot?

[Trevor_D]

I'm inclined to agree with Shirlton - if he had been that keen, he'd have contacted you by now. I recently signed up a guy who chose a bramble-infested patch and was back within half an hour with his tools to start work.

Give it a few more days, then contact him again to ask if he's still interested as there are others on the waiting list. If he doesn't reply, then I think it's fair to assume he's not interested; if he does, at least you can arrange to meet and negotiate with him.

But on the question of how much land people can cope with, we're getting quite a few now who have had no gardening experience at all and don't actually want a half, or even quarter-size, plot. So we're working on getting a few starter plots going. They could have one for a season and see how they get on; if they feel they're ready for something bigger, if a plot comes up it could be offered to them. Still working on the fine detail, but it does seem a better option than expecting a total novice to cope with what must seem a vast wilderness.

Anyone had experience at running something similar on their site. (Sorry to hi-jack your thread, Betty!)

[Squash64]

Thanks for all your replies.

On our site, it has always been the Secretary's job to take care of the waiting-list and decide which plots are given to tenants.  On the whole, this seems to work well.

elvis2003  
squash,why didnt you do the paperwork there and then,if he was so keen wouldnt he just have signed up on the spot?  

The reason I didn't do the paperwork with this particular chap was that on the day he came, I had forgotten to bring it!  (it was the day after our Summer Fayre and I hadn't got back into my normal routine)

Old bird  
Whoa!  
I am sure there must be some way of contacting this person other than waiting for him to turn up.  He must have an address and possibly a phone number.  

Contacting him is not the problem.  I would expect him to contact me after the initial meeting.
I gave him my mobile number and told him to phone me from the gate so I could come and open it for him.  He said he would not come the following day because of work but that he would come another day that week.


Old bird
I am surprised that you have so much say - obviously I understand you need to ascertain how much space to give them - but I am very surprised at the amount of power that  one person has over other people's lives.

You seem to have me down as some sort of power-mad dictator :o
I promise you, I'm not.  

If I didn't meet people first, and find out a bit about their circumstances then it could lead to them being offered a plot which would not be suitable.  The full-size plots on our site are quite large so as they become available I've started splitting them into more manageable halves and quarters.  So far, I've found that people are more than happy to take a smaller plot.

As for having "so much power over their lives" - we are talking about allotments here, which are obviously important in people's lives, but not to the extent you seem to believe.


Old bird
No doubt your allotments are weed free as you have managed to weed out the unsuitable allotment holders before they even get to turn over a sod!

I hope you are joking.

[Sparkly]

If I didn't meet people first, and find out a bit about their circumstances then it could lead to them being offered a plot which would not be suitable.  The full-size plots on our site are quite large so as they become available I've started splitting them into more manageable halves and quarters.  So far, I've found that people are more than happy to take a smaller plot.

There are quite a few people on our site that would do much better with a half plot, but I know that most of them would not be happy with this suggestion! That is obvious when you see how they cope with their current demands, but I am not sure as a committee we would have got away with making that decision upfront unless the person was agreeable to this.

It is far more complicated than "do you work?" "have you got kids?" "Have you got any other demanding hobbies?". People manage their time totally differently and some will cope where others would have gone under....

What I mean is HOW do you decide what size is suitable?

[Squash64]

But on the question of how much land people can cope with, we're getting quite a few now who have had no gardening experience at all and don't actually want a half, or even quarter-size, plot. So we're working on getting a few starter plots going. They could have one for a season and see how they get on; if they feel they're ready for something bigger, if a plot comes up it could be offered to them. Still working on the fine detail, but it does seem a better option than expecting a total novice to cope with what must seem a vast wilderness.

Anyone had experience at running something similar on their site. (Sorry to hi-jack your thread, Betty!)

No need to apologise, I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has done this too.  What size will your starter plots be?

[elvis2003]

this starter plot idea,while i agree its a good idea,is it not a little bit patronising? i would have felt a bit hard done to if i had been offered one llike that i think.
i put people on the waiting list without having met them,and offer them whatever size plot next comes up.they all say they are as keen as mustard and have this plan and that idea,not all of them fulfill their promises! :-[

[Squashfan]

Squash64, I sympathize with you. There is no fun in being the one who allots out the allotments.  :P We joke with our allotment supervisor and call him "the fuhrer", but it is definitely a joke and he does a good job. Without him, our allotments would be blighted by more than just our weedy h-e-double toothpicks-hole, as I call our patch.  ;D So good on you for being the one who does the donkey work.

I digress. This is the thing: like dating, if the man is truly interested he will call you and come and get his 1/4 or 1/2 plot. Give it a week and then assign it to the next one on the list. As for starter plots, well, if that's the way that site works, then that's the way it works.

And no, there is no magical formula for seeing who will keep their allotment tidy or not. However, I'll argue that because my plot is terribly weed-ful, does not mean it is any less loved and tended. We get a lot of lovely veggies out of our patch despite the weeds. We both have full-time jobs and a small child, so we get down there when we can. It's a vegetable patch, not a beauty contest.   ;) And it's very relaxing when the wind blows through the weeds, hee hee...

[Squash64]

There are quite a few people on our site that would do much better with a half plot, but I know that most of them would not be happy with this suggestion! That is obvious when you see how they cope with their current demands, but I am not sure as a committee we would have got away with making that decision upfront unless the person was agreeable to this.

It is far more complicated than "do you work?" "have you got kids?" "Have you got any other demanding hobbies?". People manage their time totally differently and some will cope where others would have gone under....

What I mean is HOW do you decide what size is suitable?

There are a lot of people on our site too who would be better off with half a plot, myself included! 

The problem is, it is very difficult to give up part of a plot you have been working for years.  I have a large fig tree on the part of mine that would be most suitable for giving up, but how can I?

It is much easier with newcomers - they do not get offered a full-size plot.
 
I have only just started doing quarter plots and nobody has minded having one.  One bloke who took an overgrown one on in May has done wonders with it.  The first day, he bought and put up a small shed.  The fist week, all his paths were laid, raised beds put in and crops planted.  He put up a greenhouse, made compost bins and a seating area. In July after only 3 months of having the plot he won our 'Best Newcomer' competition and the judges said he had more on his small plot than many people with full-sized ones. I have recently given him three-quarters of another plot and he is storming through that one too.
When I offer people a quarter plot I take them and show them what this man has done with his and they are always impressed.

[lavenderlux]

On our site, all new people get a half ie five rod plot, to start with and we've been operating this policy for over two years now.  If a ten rod plot is given up its split into two and this help keep down our waiting list (although at the moment its over 30 which is the highest its ever been).  If a person is successfully tending a five rod plot wants to have another, then they go on the waiting list.    

[SMP1704]

I think this man's absence says a lot - yes, he might have 'stuff' going on in his life, but he made a comittment to return to the site, was quite specific about when he could and couldn't, then didn't show up.

To alleviate feelings of guilt, I would be inclined to call or write to him - note that I had not heard from him, that other people are on the waiting list and that if I did not hear by x date, I will offer the plot to someone else.

That will either galvanise him into action or let him off the hook.

[plot51A]

Re: starter plots. There is a project here in Norwich called the Grow Our Own Project which offers people starter plots - well, strips really. It is about sustainable living and you must grow organically. There are shared facilities, tools etc, manure, leaf mould, composting area and seeds and plants are provided for the rent paid - a higher rate than normal allotments. It is very popular, so popular that it is now difficult to progress to larger plots coz there aint any! The project started before the huge rise in popularity for allotments I think.
Not sure that it really gives people much of an idea about a proper plot - no space to grow anything worthwhile. Great idea about tools etc - if you had a starter plot you wouldn't want to carry all the gear to and from the plot.
There are big waiting lists here like most places and normal plots are really big. I personally feel that any full plot becoming vacant should be split in half so more people get plots, they are still a decent size (only got half plot myself, chose it coz it was manageable  ;D)
Overtaken by other posts while typing - lavenderlux thats a great policy!

[shirlton]

Our site has started doing half plots and the folks are really happy with them. it's still their little bit of heaven. Some of the folks who have taken on full plots just never seem to get them cultivated. At least half of their plots are untouched.Its such a shame when people are wanting to grow their own food.