Topic: advice please, should I change my mind?

[Trevor_D]

this starter plot idea,while i agree its a good idea,is it not a little bit patronising? i would have felt a bit hard done to if i had been offered one llike that i think.-[

We're not going to impose it on anyone, merely offer it. It won't give anyone the "right" to jump the waiting list, but will give them an idea of what is involved and what they can achieve. While they have the starter plot they stay the same number on the waiting list as before; if they reach the top they will be offered a plot, but they don't have to take it.

[Unwashed]

Squash

I suggest the letting principles should be something like:

1. When you apply for a plot you go on the waiting list.
2. When a plot becomes available it's offered to whoever's on the top of the waiting list, and if she doesn't want it then work down the waiting list to find someone who does want it.
3. If she doesn't want the whole plot then she can take how much she wants and the rest is offered down the waiting list.
4. If she wants a bigger plot she can take what she's offered and keep her position on the waiting list.

The interests, aptitudes and personal details of your applicants are none of your business.  The job of the letting secretary is to show the prospective tenant where the plot is that they've been offered, not to vet applicants.

Sometimes new tenants won't cope, many will.  You can't tell which are which.

This chap, what didn't you like about him?  Was he black, or gay, or Jewish, or disabled?

[ceres]

There are two issues - his non-attendance and how much land you award him.

He should have contacted you but, as others have suggested, there may be mitigating circumstances.  Perhaps he might have even found your interview intimidating?  Not everyone performs at their best when put on the spot unexpectedly.  To be fair, you should contact him again and tell him you can't keep the plot open indefinitely and set a deadline by which he has to appear or you let the plot to the next person and take him off the waiting list.  That might solve your problem!

Our site operates a variation on what Unwashed suggests.  We have designated full and half plots - we don't split them (or combine them) on the fly.  When someone joins the waiting list, they express their preference for a full or half.  When a plot becomes available it's offered to whoever is top of the list for that size.  We don't assess people's capability, how much free time they have, what their other hobbies are or anything else.  In my view, it's not appropriate.  If he does turn up you should honour your original offer.

[Squash64]

The interests, aptitudes and personal details of your applicants are none of your business.  The job of the letting secretary is to show the prospective tenant where the plot is that they've been offered, not to vet applicants.

Sometimes new tenants won't cope, many will.  You can't tell which are which.

This chap, what didn't you like about him?  Was he black, or gay, or Jewish, or disabled?

When I meet prospective tenants we "talk" to each other - as in "have a conversation with".  I don't vet them, I don't grill them, I don't interrogate them.  It is true that the interests and personal details of applicants are none of my business, but when did I say they were?  As for their aptitude, if I offered a full-size plot to someone who clearly would not be able to manage it then I would be depriving it to someone who could.

I find your last remark offensive and if you knew me you would understand why.

[1066]

Hi Squash - our site operates something very similar to Ceres' site, if you want a large plot you can have one, etc

Unwashed - that last comment sounds uncalled for to me!

1066

[northener]

Ignore it Betty, folk getting wound up for no reason.

[shirlton]

Unwashed,if you did know Betty you would definitely take back that last remark

[plot51A]

I think it is a great pity that someone asks for advice/opinions on a situation, clearly states the basis on which they are asking then has to face a whole load of criticism and some personal remarks from others who want the whole system changed. In general this site copes well with differences of opinion but sometimes it gets out of hand. I can think of at least one similar situation which caused the poster, a much valued and long time member of A4A to leave the site completely. I would be very sorry to see that repeated.
Good luck with your decision Squash64 and best wishes.
Anne

[Unwashed]

Squash

There was something about this chap that you didn't like and that you haven't been able to articulate, and you found it objectionable enough to consider going back on your offer to him of a half plot and you were undecided whether to offer him a quarter plot, or even no plot at all. 

By your own admission you're discriminating against this guy on personal and subjective grounds.  That makes you vulnerable to criticism.  You don't have to justify your position to me, but my advice to you - and you did ask - is that you should think how that discrimination might look, because even if you're comfortable with whatever motivates your discrimination, and I don't think you should be, it might be difficult to show objectively that your behaviour isn't motivated by a less acceptable prejudice.

[Old bird]

Betty I was not having a pop at you - personally - but at your system!

I would not rate highly with your system - I am aiming for 60 years old - work full time plus a couple of part time jobs - have a couple of dogs which take up a fair bit of time and - probably - would not rate very highly with your system on the time available type of issues and manpower strength!

This is - to me - the problem.  Some stereotypes do not fit all!  I wanted to re-home a labrador dog - I went to labrador rescue - they would not look at me as I work full time.  I privately re-homed a labrador and a lurcher.  They are both very happy - well exercised - an hour and a half a day on beach/forest or moorland areas.  Yet they (labrador rescue) considered me not suitable?!

Yet I run 2 plots very ably and they are not weed strewn or a mess (they are - obviously - at times) I have my chooks - who are kept well - clean and happy.

The person who has just done very well and become "best newcomer" sounds great - but for him the plots being split are not ideal.  He has his shed and stuff on one and then he has three quarters of another plot - can't be ideal for him having to lug his tools around your site.

But then maybe your particular site is - if I remember - huge - in comparison to my area with a little over 20 plots.

Anyway - for what it is worth - I hope your dilemma will/is soon sorted and peace and harmony returns here!

Old Bird

 :D

[Flighty]

Squash64 reading your opening comment again I think that some of the following comments have rather missed the point!
Although there may circumstances why he didn't contact you again I feel that by not doing you could presume that he's not interested,  and I certainly don't see why you should feel awful.
Surely the simplest solution would be to contact him and find out why he didn't get back to you. Point out that if he's not interested then the offer no longer stands.
This person appears not to be worth worrying about as you have. There are plenty of others who are far more deserving and will thank you for it.
I'd also speak to your chairman about it, if you haven't already done so, to let him know what's happened and what you intend doing.

[shirlton]

There is an allotment site not too far from us that has a system whereby any potential plot holder has to go before the commitee.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I think the person at the top of the list should be offered the plot, without any vetting. Otherwise all sorts of strange things can start happening, as the selecter's criteria will inevitably be subjective, and unconscious prejudice can easily slip in.

[Pesky Wabbit]

I really don't see why this question has come up.

The allocation of plots is a key part of running an allotment.

The Rules Of Allocation/Selection of New Members/Terms Of Acceptance  should be part of the allotments Rules and Regulations and the Allotment Constitution that has been agreed by ALL members of society.

Are you a private allotment or council run ? If any potential new member feels he /she has been discriminated against, for any reason whatsoever, it may leave the council vulnerable to be sued.

Any decisions on who gets a plot, how big & how they accept it, MUST be seen to be fair and unbiased- - in clear documented evidence, in exactly the same way as an employer takes on an employee.  There are very strong anti discrimination laws.

Squash - if  you take on such a role and make up your own decisions - expect to be criticised. If you can demonstrate you have followed your  procedures, then you shouldn't  take any criticism personally. On the other hand ...

[Squash64]

Thanks for all the replies - but I wish I had not started this topic.

I can take constructive criticism, I wouldn't have asked for advice if I couldn't.  I can not take being accused of being homophobic, racist, predudiced and bigotted.

There is so much I would like to say but I get the feeling that whatever I write will be misinterpreted so I have lost the will to say it.

Time to take a back seat I think....

(but again, thanks for the replies, I will think about what has been said)

[Sparkly]

Thanks for all the replies - but I wish I had not started this topic.

I can take constructive criticism, I wouldn't have asked for advice if I couldn't.  I can not take being accused of being homophobic, racist, predudiced and bigotted.

There is so much I would like to say but I get the feeling that whatever I write will be misinterpreted so I have lost the will to say it.

Time to take a back seat I think....

(but again, thanks for the replies, I will think about what has been said)

Betty, I for one was not trying to have a go at you. I was just trying to make the point that was articulated well by Robert in a previous post. In this day and age having subjective procedures for selection is opening a can of worms. It might have gone really well so far because (prospective) tennants have agreed with you. I would dread to think what could happen if someone didn't agree. Those people that don't agree also wouldn't be the ones that are likely to bring it up at the discussion, but they are the ones that would be taking it further via discrimination laws!

We all want happy sites and allotmenteers who are able to work their plots and keep them under control.

I don't think anyone is accusing you of being homophobic or racist etc

They are just trying to highlight how the situation could be interpreted, even if you are doing this in good faith. 

I would hate to see anyone stuck at the end of a dispute....

[bridgehouse]

Perhaps this man  is on holiday, that could be the reason he has not been in touch, give him a little time to make contact and see from there.
       June.

[busy_lizzie]

Hi, I am in agreement with Robert, that there should be a waiting list where people could have a preference for a whole or half plot and that is it. Once the person comes to the top of the list then they have the choice of the plot themselves.  We have a three month probationary period at our site which works well and shows up those newbies that are not going to be able to manage.  I think it is too much responsibility to put the decision making on one persons shoulders and if there is any doubt then it should be set before the committee for a joint decison. You shouldn't have to take the flak Squash64 as it could bring you allsorts of personal abuse.  If the rules of the tenancy are laid out then people have to adhere to them and not one person can be blamed if things go wrong. busy_lizzie

[cornykev]

Betty, I don't think most on here are trying to offend you, just one idiot who I think is waiting to come back with an apology for their stupid remarks.     :( :( :(