Topic: Aminopyralid Reinstatement Update

[ceres]

The draft minutes of the 30 June Advisory Committee on Pesticides are now available:

"3.1 (a) Aminopyralid [ACP 12 (338/2009)]

3.1.1 Members considered further information requested following discussions at the 337th Meeting on 12 May 2009.

3.1.2 After consideration of this information, the ACP advised that approvals could be reinstated subject to the rigorous conditions of the stewardship scheme which would stop the supply of manure containing residues and provide testing advice and equipment, as well as a removal service for any remaining manure containing residues on allotments or gardens.

3.1.3 The Committee noted email correspondence from allotment holders received prior to the Meeting, and discussed methods of providing information and reassurance. It was agreed that the ACP would produce a press release in addition to any action by CRD if their advice is accepted by Ministers."

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/acp.asp?id=2724

I've had some details of the proposed stewardship scheme.  It will only be allowed to be used on pasture, no hay/silage/fodder can be made if spraying has taken place.  Farmers will have to sign the stewardship document containing this restriction.  The instruction leaflet will be strengthened on disposing of contaminated manure on site and that it musn't be disposed of elsewhere.  Key instructions will be included on containers in picture form!  Sub-contractors who do spraying for farmers will be subject to the stewardship programme.  They will have to sign it and tell the farmer of the restrictions who will also have to sign.  The products will only be sold in large quantities so that it is too costly for 'ad-hoc' use and it will be illegal to sell/pass it on to anyone who isn't registered and trained (I think this already applies to professional use products - Tonybloke?).  Suppliers and users will have to undergo appropriate training and will have to sign up to supplying/using in line with the training and product instructions.  Details of all suppliers and users will be registered in a computer system to enable tracking of violations.

[Digeroo]

So waht do we do - hold a book to see how long it is until someone else starts having a problem.

All the paperwork signing is not for our benefit but to protect Dow in case of an escape.  I am not impressed. 

If anyone has a problem there will be mountains of paperwork all carefully signed.  But is will still be almost impossible with a batch of contaminated manure to track down where the contamination occurred.  By the time a batch of manure has been laying about for some considerable time the trial will go cold.  If they are to be held responsible people will not admit to being anything to do with the situation.

Key instructions will be included on containers in picture form!

This statement is alarming.  It more or less admits that they do not expect that the users will actually read the instructions.

[Robert_Brenchley]

they never do. Off-label use of agricultural chemicals is a problem everywhere. Dow are just trying to guard their back against legal action, with the connivance of the powers that be.

[Suzanne]

Do we know who enforces compliance with the stewardship scheme and how active they are?

[tonybloke]

Do we know who enforces compliance with the stewardship scheme and how active they are?

DEFRA, and some of their people are reasonably fit. ;)

[Digeroo]

My guess is that gardeners and allotmenteers will actually do the monitoring when their plants and crops begin to die.  Then they will know that the horse has bolted again. 

I cannot see DEFRA following each bottle of weedkiller around.

[ceres]

DEFRA, and some of their people are reasonably fit. ;)

Earlier this year, responsibility for regulation of pesticides (and other chemical substances) transferred from the Pesticides Safety Directorate which was part of DEFRA, to the Chemicals Regulation Directorate which is part of the Health and Safety Executive.

I believe but haven't yet been able to confirm that the record keeping in respect of the stewardship scheme will be done by Dow.  Any scrutiny would be done by the CRD but there are as yet no details of how that will work.

[redimp]

So waht do we do - hold a book to see how long it is until someone else starts having a problem.

All the paperwork signing is not for our benefit but to protect Dow in case of an escape.  I am not impressed. 

If anyone has a problem there will be mountains of paperwork all carefully signed.  But is will still be almost impossible with a batch of contaminated manure to track down where the contamination occurred.  By the time a batch of manure has been laying about for some considerable time the trial will go cold.  If they are to be held responsible people will not admit to being anything to do with the situation.

Key instructions will be included on containers in picture form!

This statement is alarming.  It more or less admits that they do not expect that the users will actually read the instructions.

I do not see why people are getting so het up about following the trail back.  All right, if you buy it in bags from the garden centre then the original source may not be traceable but the 'manufacturer' the finished product has a duty to sell you a product 'fit for purpose'.  If you get your muck by the trailer load from a farmer, then the source of the contamination must be obvious surely.  It will be a thin defence to say 'someone sprayed my land without my knowledge.  His/her cows/horses, his/her pasture land, his/her responsibility for misuse of pesticides.

[ceres]

It's not that easy redclanger.  All the people affected on my site bought the manure from the same place.  The owner flatly denied any involvement.  We would have had to PROVE that he had used something in a court of law.  There is no definitive laboratory test to prove it.  The manure had been kept outdoors, on our plots, open to the elements and possibly to cross-contamination etc. etc. so contamination could have come from anywhere.  It sounds simple - damaged plants therefore contaminated manure but the chain between the two cannot be proven to the standard required for prosecution.

Despite the large numbers of cases, no-one has been held accountable and prosecuted.

[Digeroo]

The current test as stated on the dow website manure matters using broad beans is not even a proper test, it is only an indicator.  It indicates that the manure is contaminated it does not test for the offending chemical. 

So it will not stand up in a court of law. 

[Robert_Brenchley]

If it happens to a group of people on an allotment site, all of whom used manure from the same source, and it doesn't appear where the manure was not used, it should surely be possible to convince a judge that, on the balance of probablilities, the damage is due to the manure!

[Obelixx]

I teach English to Belgian scientists working in agricultural research stations.  One of them is a herbicides expert so I asked him about this stuff when it was first identified as a problem last year.

His answer is below but it seems that UK farmers have fewer controls (or maybe scruples) about what happens to hay and manure from treated pastures.

It was registered in February and is only restricted for permanent pastures. Only few product were sold.

In UK it is sold since 2006. Several farmers applied manure contaminated by amynopyralid on allotment. And peopele growing vegetable on these allotment had problem. Only 7 of 250 declared cases were scientifically linked to amynopiralid application.

In Belgium, we do not have such allotment and manure is not sold as it for Home and garden use.

Only dried manure pellets is sold but until now not contamination as to be expected.

For 2009, the use will still be allowed but restricted to pasture which can not be cut and only grassed by the cow so no exportation of herbicide is expected.

In UK, grassland were treated with amynopyralid, cut and the harvested grass was used to feed cow in buildings. The manure collected from theses building was contaminated and applied on allotment.

In Belgium no exportation of grass/dejection/manure from pasture treated with aminopyralid is allowed. Farmer who would like to buy amynopyralid would have to sign an agreement/declaration at buying and should declare the field where it will be applied… according to Dow AgroSciences Stewards ship.

[chriscross1966]

THe HSE is a far nastier organisation than DEFRA when it coems to enforcement. Their normal first response is to shut something down until their investigations are over.... That would be a farm in this instance and I would expect that once it has happened no farmer will want to use that stuff....

chrisc