Topic: Permission for trading hut

[Unwashed]

Hi, does anyone know if it's actually necessary to have the council's permission to operate a trading hut?  My council won't allow it, but is there anything to stop me selling stuff not-for-profit from my shed anyway?

[BrianK]

Hi, does anyone know if it's actually necessary to have the council's permission to operate a trading hut?  My council won't allow it, but is there anything to stop me selling stuff not-for-profit from my shed anyway?

Yes.  And on the grounds you would not get insurance I would not suggest it.

Nothing to stop you doing it from a shed in your garden though ;)

[OllieC]

I thought if it's on your own property, something like, er maybe 80% has to be grown on the premises?

[BrianK]

Hmmm  do you mean selling stuff to allotmenteers like seed compsot tools or do u mean selling surplus produce.

I might have got the wrong end of the stick?

[Unwashed]

I mean selling stuff like compost, seeds, pots, sticks, tea - not selling produce.

Would I not get insurance?

[ceres]

I mean selling stuff like compost, seeds, pots, sticks, tea - not selling produce.

We run a small cafe on site, 2 hours on a Sunday selling teas, coffees and donated home-baking.  We fell foul of Environmental Health.  They insisted we had to be inspected, included us in the published star ratings of all catering establishments in the Borough and gave us a list of things as long as your arm that we had to comply with - separate toilet for 'catering staff', double sink with one exclusively for hand-washing, what we couldn't sell - dairy (so no scones with cream) meat (so not bacon butties), how the food was to be wrapped.  We had to have a cleaning rota and the 'staff' had to be trained and we had to have a training manual.  Be warned!

Until the fire, we also ran a little shop selling the sort of stuff you're talking about.  I'm not aware that we have had to apply for any permissions.

[trogg]

hi,
If you are going to run it as a business then you'll need permission from whoever your renting your premises off, Inform Inland revenue, get public liability, product liability, and if the 'premises' hasn't got permission for retail use, you'll have to apply for it  from the council.

Not what you wanted to hear, but unless I'm very much mistaken, It's what you've got to do to be legal.  :-\

A bit OTT if you want to sell a few bits from a shed I agree  ::)

BTW, I've worked for myself for over 25 years..... and I can tell you that nothing is Straight forward concerning the council or Insurance.

Good luck 

[bazzysbarn]

Are you allowed to sell eggs from your own chickens on an allotment? We have a chap on our site who does but i thought you couldnt sell your own stuff?

[BrianK]

I am with Trogg. On the insurance form it will ask for details of the land owner etc and whether the property has planning permission as a shop. If it doesn't then they will probablt take your insurance money and give you a huge wad of papers saying it's your policy and thank you.

Then the first occassion you get broke in and everything stolen they check all the details, find you have not planning permission and then say your not covered and your then up the proverbial creek.

Been there seen it,, couldn't afford the T-Shirt afterwards.

[radar ears]

Click on this link,
 
 http://www.farmgarden.org.uk/ari/

It will give you a wealth of info and you can click on a section for factsheets, there are a lot of factsheets on there, but they are all downloadable and printable, if you have adobe acrobat, (if you don't, you can download it for free from the Adobe site).

When the site comes up, click on "resources" on the top menu and when that comes up, on the sidebar, click on
"ARI factsheets".

Scroll down and the one that mentions Trading Huts is "activities requiring special management".

Incidentally, although I expect most of you know, Allotment Law states that although it is forbidden to use your plot for growing commercially, you can actually sell any genuine surplus.

Have a good day.

[Unwashed]

Thanks Radar Ears.

Associations need to have written permission from the allotment authority to have a trading hut

That's pretty clear, but frustratingly it doesn't say why so I'm not convinced they're right.  If my allotment authority won't allow us to have a trading hut because they want to suppress the site association, what action can they actually take against me if I start selling seeds and compost from my own shed?

[radar ears]

Our allotments are on council owned land, but we are a society site., with our own Committee.

We collect the rents for the council and try and do our own repairs, as and when we can.

We have a trading hut, that my partner and I run, it has always been there since the site started, which is dinosaur years ago.

It's more like a social gathering on a Sunday morning !

We're very lucky in that our Council's Allotment Officer is really nice and goes out of his way to be helpful.

[daxzen]

radar ears - you are a hero

thanks so much

we are trying to get this going here in brixworth - fantastic resource

espescially VEG EXCHANGE

http://www.vegexchange.com/

take the red pill!

dax

[radar ears]

Glad to have been of service !

We're on a mission on our site actually, to really tidy up and get sorted.

When my partner (John) and I (I'm Jill by the way) came to this particular site, I because Secretary and we took over the trading hut, a lot of it was overgrown and I mean "a lot".

John strimmed down some of it and was able to get a few plots back into production, but as to the rest of it, well, when anyone came and asked if we had a plot, we told them that we had, but that it was going to be a mammoth task to clear it and do you know, the majority of these people took on the plots and worked like absolute Trojans to get them shipshape.

The "newbies" came up with the idea of working parties and that is what we have started, we meet up every Monday fortnight usually and get stuck in.

Last time we jet-washed the loos and our Treasurer's son, who is a "sparks" installed lights in both ladies and gents.
We can then (or the lads can!) make the new doors for the loos and we've got a load of spare ceramic tiles, so one of the plot-holders offered to tile the insides for us.

We dismantled an old manky compost bin and built a "corral" type structure from pallets for one side to be a communal compost area and the other side is for horse manure, as we get ours delivered to us.

Our next job is to cut a load of brambles down and shred them up and also cut down a few trees, once the birds have stopped nesting, so that we can get some more of the dis-used plots back into circulation again.

[flowerofshona2007]

Ok you can run a site shop which only sells to MEMBERS of your association, you do not need to be vat reg, ect as long as your association is not a registered business.
You have to see proof that everyone who uses your shop is a member or an associate member, if you sell to the public you are breaking the law and will need all the normal licences ect.
You will have to make sure any fertilisers, chemicals are stored in a safe place so your shed would not be a good idea but a lorry back or metal shed is fine. You will need insurance and have fire extingishers.
Hope that helps  :)

[radar ears]

When myself and John took over the Trading Hut three years ago, I did this notice, because I like doing soppy things.
People do read it and they do have a chuckle to themselves, but they take note.
I put the bits in red and blue, to make the plot-holders stop and take note.
Please feel free to nick it if you wish to! (lol)

WHEN YOU COME IN TO BUY OUR “STOCK” WE WILL ASK YOU TO “LETTUCE” SEE YOUR MEMBERSHIP CARD.

WE DON’T WANT TO MAKE “ANEMONE” OF ANYONE, BUT IT “ASTER” BE DONE.

WE JUST CAN’T ALLOW ANY “TOM(ATO), DICK OR HARI(COT BEAN)” IN THE HUT.

YOU MAY BE “CHRYS AN’ THE MUM”, “SWEET WILLIAM” OR EVEN “KING EDWARD”, BUT YOU COULD ALSO BE “TRADING STANDARDS”.

THEY COME IN COOL AS A “CUCUMBER”, WHICH WOULD BE A “TURNIP” FOR THE BOOKS!

WE CAN’T BREAK THE LAW AND SELL TO OUTSIDERS, OTHERWISE, “WEED” BOTH BE CARTED OFF TO “(ARTI) CHOKEY” IN THE “BIG MONOPOLY” AND WE DON’T HAVE A “GET OUT OF JAIL FREE” CARD.

WE HAVE TO USE OUR “SAVOY” AT ALL TIMES !

REMEMBER, WE’RE ALL VOLUNTEERS, WE’RE NOT PAID A “CELERY” !

AND WE DON’T WANT TO BE CLOSED DOWN WITH A SHOUT OF:

RIGHT, THAT’S “SHALLOT” !

[Unwashed]

Flower, Radar, thanks very much, very helpful.

So we can sell to members.  What exactly does that exempt us from?  VAT registration is to do with turnover isn't it?  Do you know what law we'd actually be breaking if we sold to non-members?  Are we exempt from any of the other stuff like product liability, food hygene, etc?

It's a long story, but the council had goven us permission for a trading hut on condition that it was open to anyone - that wasn't much help was it.

Many thanks.

[trogg]

Ok you can run a site shop which only sells to MEMBERS of your association, you do not need to be vat reg, ect as long as your association is not a registered business.
You have to see proof that everyone who uses your shop is a member or an associate member, if you sell to the public you are breaking the law and will need all the normal licences ect.
You will have to make sure any fertilisers, chemicals are stored in a safe place so your shed would not be a good idea but a lorry back or metal shed is fine. You will need insurance and have fire extingishers.
Hope that helps  :)

Aha, it all makes sense now, I don't have an allotment but I do pop down to my local allotments who have a 'shop' .
I had to pay £1 to become a 'member' so I could buy from them, at the time i thought it was a little strange, but now it makes sense  8)

And I think radar ears is just taking the PEA

[flowerofshona2007]

All i can say is your council are stupid !
By opening to everyone you will need all the licences, correct storage ect ! Is there no one at your council who has a brain cell to rub together !!
By keeping it to your members you will be able to sell losse fertilizers and composts,once you start opening to the public you will need to print full lables for any baggd products, have a fire safety certificate, have a licence to store some products, you will need employee insurance, public liability insurance, and the list goes on !!!!
Keep it small and simple.

[radar ears]

Aha, it all makes sense now, I don't have an allotment but I do pop down to my local allotments who have a 'shop' .
I had to pay £1 to become a 'member' so I could buy from them, at the time i thought it was a little strange, but now it makes sense  8)

And I think radar ears is just taking the PEA

Ooh Cheeky !

That's the spirit !