Topic: peppers not getting taller!

[ceres]

Thanks Carbonel11! I feel affirmed in my organic madness. Eristic: I don't use the milk as a fertiliser, but as something which fights fungal problems like blight. For fertilising, I use comfrey tea.

The Jamaican link describes milk as a 'plant food'.  You're using it as an anti-fungal so not sure what has been affirmed?  ???

I had a look at your soil concoction for tomatoes.  I've got a well-known brand of skimmed milk powder in my store cupboard.  The ingredients are: dried skimmed milk, vegetable oil, dried glucose syrup, sugar, emulsifier (soya lecithin). anti-caking agent (silicon dioxide), vitamin A, vitamin D, colour (beta-carotene), vitamin C.  Doesn't sound very 'organic'. ??? Did you invent the concoction yourself?

[FennelandFern]

Thanks for your question ceres. The skimmed milk powder I have is organic and says 'Milk powder (from cows' milk) and Vitamin A' on the back. I'm pretty happy with that. My grandad made the soil concoction and it worked for him, and it works for me.

I first started using the milk soultion after reading Gayla Trail's book 'You Grow Girl'. She swears by the stuff. Again, I'm sorry I can't find any research online.

Guys I'm really sorry if my little potions have annoyed people. I guess everyone does things differently.

[saddad]

Grow like you want to grow...  :)

[carbonel11]

May I commend you fennelandfern on your polite and informative reply. i find it interesting to hear about others methods. Did your grandfather have good results with this method? :)

[ceres]

Guys I'm really sorry if my little potions have annoyed people. I guess everyone does things differently.

I'm not annoyed.  I'm just curious and, if I'm honest, sceptical.  You presented a cure for blight in tomatoes.  I'd like to know how it works and why.  It strikes me as odd that, if it works, something so simple hasn't been widely taken up and seized on by anyone who grows tomatoes.

PS the Guardian piece didn't mention using organic milk powder or organic eggs.  Incomplete info?



   

[Baccy Man]

The Jamaican link describes milk as a 'plant food'.  You're using it as an anti-fungal so not sure what has been affirmed?  ???

Another section of the Jamaican MOA describes it's use as a fungicide.
http://www.moa.gov.jm/eatgrow_gardencare/garden_homemadefungicide.php

Most sources suggest diluted milk is a preventative fungicide not a cure for a fungal disease & the potassium level in milk is frequently mentioned as plants use potassium to build up disease resistance.

There are also multiple references to Wagner Bettiol a Brazilian scientist who published a report in 1999 regarding the effectiveness of cow's milk against powdery mildew (Sphaerotheca fuliginea) in greenhouse conditions. A copy of the report can be viewed online here:
http://www.agrar.de/agenda/bettiol.htm
Alternately you can dowload a copy as an MS word document here:
http://www.agrar.de/agenda/bettiol.zip

[ceres]

Yes, aware of it's use against mildew.  Not blight.

The Jamaican site and Bettiol work both involve spraying with a milk dilution, not watering it in as FAF does.

[FennelandFern]

Mmm, I only use the milk as a preventative thing, never as a cure. My understanding has always been that milk helps strengthen them. I imagine it isn't used more widely because milk is quite expensive compared to other stuff?

I apologise if my piece was, in your view, incorrect. I'm afraid I am an English graduate, not a trained horticultural scientist. But I am gardener, and Jane Perrone asked me to write about organic mixes which work in my garden. So I did.

My grandfather used it for many years in his garden, and made notes of it in his gardening book. My dad tells me his tomatoes were spectacular. Sadly, he died when I was young, so I can't get him to give evidence on here to satisfy you.

Why don't you try it on your toms? Then you can get back to me and tell me if it worked for you.

I'll leave this topic now.

[daileg]

Baccyman

I thought that was a intresting read I'm going to ponder this on possible true cant do any harm i must admit i tried paracetamol last year as someone suggested would be beneficial i never noticed any results i suffered blossom end rot on various toms last year so if this works.

[Baccy Man]

Yes, aware of it's use against mildew.  Not blight.

I have only seen occasional references to milk affecting blight in studies on treatment of other fungal problems, nothing conclusive & nothing that detailed. For example the quote below (from a report focusing on powdery mildew) suggests the possibility that diluted milk sprayed on to an affected plant + sunlight may damage the cell walls of the oomycete that causes blight. I suspect watering in would eliminate the effect of sunlight on the milk residues which is frequently mentioned as being an important factor.

Quote taken from:
http://www.agwine.adelaide.edu.au/plant/crisp_2006.pdf

There have been a number of explanations for the action
of milk, including the anti-fungal action of the fatty acids,
the production of free radicals when exposed to UV light
or the creation of osmotic imbalance due to salts and
other components. Bettiol (1999) suggested that milk may
have a direct effect on the fungus or may induce systemic
resistance to powdery mildew in zucchini. There is also
evidence that exposure of milk to the ultraviolet radiation in
sunlight results in the photogeneration of superoxide anions
(Korycha-Dahl and Richardson 1978) and oxygen radicals
that interfere with the cell membranes of Phytophthora
infestans (Jordan et al. 1992).

[Eristic]

The trouble is that when using preparations for preventive measures you never know if it has worked or you were just lucky enough not to get infected. I put it to you that it doesn't work and you are wasting good food.

With the arrival of the 21st century we seem to be now getting a rash of people desperately trying weird and wacky dark ages remedies to plant problems primarily for the purpose of writing a book and making money out of the upsurge in growing your own food. These people are easily identified because they always finish their argument with the phrase "well it works for me". I never visit the allotment before 7pm during the summer months and it works for me, but does it prove that gardening after 7pm is better? I think not.

There is no cure for blight on tomatoes, organic or otherwise. If your tomatoes get blight you have a race against time to harvest and use as many green tomatoes as possible before they all rot. The only way forward is reselection of resistant strains, something which I am trying to do with poor results so far.

[FennelandFern]

Thanks I get the message. I'll leave you guys to it. I'm clearly not welcome here.

[littlebabybird]

F&F I'm not an english graduate so my ability to read between the lines is probably not as great as yours, but i can see nothing on this thread that intimates you are not welcome here.
the object of the boards imho is to talk about what we do and think
there would be little point if you just wrote about your way and then every one just said thank you f&f
Infact rather than being off with you there are even a few people here who have tried
to give links defending what you do.
if you chose to leave then so be it but please dont think for a moment that you have been driven away
each to their own but i dont think anyone has been unfair to you

lbb

just my own oppinion

[1066]

Thanks I get the message. I'll leave you guys to it. I'm clearly not welcome here.

I hope you don't mean this as I feel everyone's input is important, interesting and yup sometimes valid! Besides its the point of a forum after all  ;)

1066

[betula]

Hope you doo not leave :)

I enjoy your posts.

We all say what we think on here but no reason to leave :)

[lewic]

Thanks I get the message. I'll leave you guys to it. I'm clearly not welcome here.

Do stay! I am interested in the rationale behind milk as a blight preventative - non pasteurised milk and yogurt contains various lactobacteria and it is perfectly feasible that these could provide some protectation against fungi, as they do in humans.

[FennelandFern]

I'm sorry if I overreacted. I guess it was just maybe a little harsh to suggest I was trying to make money by making up pointless gardening remedies! I can think of quicker and more effective ways to make money then prancing about with a watering can! I've just been explaining to 1066 that I'm just a bit fed up of being told I'm wrong the whole time: although I do appreciate forums are where you exchange opinions: the first question I asked on here was because I wasn't sure about something and wanted an expert opion, and sure enough saddad popped up and deftly answered it for me!

I unfortunately have an aged neighbour who thinks that because I'm only 23 and don't use chemicals, I am a total loon. In fact, he takes every opportunity to tell me so, and gives me long lectures about how I am 'doing it all wrong'. It's just a bit wearing when actually, to use the banned phrase, it works for me, and my stuff is cropping better than his!

So to come on here and be shot down for what I imagined was a helpful suggestion from my experience, and my grandfather's experience, was a little bit dispiriting to say the least. However, stubborn as I am, I shall continue to use milk, whether or not you approve Eristic and Ceres.  :P

[Rhubarb Thrasher]

well I'll probably try skimmed milk, but on the mildew, when it comes

[saddad]

I'm no expert... but don't need scientific chapter and verse for everything either.
As I think I've already said "if it works for you" fine by me. "
"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamed of in your philosphy..." to paraphrase the Bard...   :)

[Borlotti]

I have peppers in the front garden, back garden, lean to, all in pots, some in soil in back garden and some at the allotment.  Have been feeding them all with tomato feed.  They are all taking a long time to produce flowers or fruit, the ones in the lean to are winning at present, the ones at the allotment are rubbish. I don't really mind as peppers give me indigestion but I just love to see them growing, got all the hot red peppers and the other peppers mixed up but will see what I get.  Should I feed them milk neat, or dilute it??? Sounds interesting and what works for one, who cares what others think, some people can be quite condesending.