Topic: Sheds on Allotments!

[shaun01]

if they burn it down mate let us no and i will come and give you a lift building another one , good lock fella and enjoy , i bet your walking round the lottie with a big  ;D on your face i know i would be

[elvis2003]

if they burn it down mate let us no and i will come and give you a lift building another one , good lock fella and enjoy , i bet your walking round the lottie with a big  ;D on your face i know i would be

so supportive shaun,nice one  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

[Jean Galsworthy]

I know how unreasonable the Harthill committee has been over many things, not just sheds, but I feel  must say something in favour of committees in general, having just stood down from ours after 15 years, 14 as treasurer.  It is a pretty thankless task, and very time consuming if done properly.  People moan but don't want to do any of the work, we are lucky to get 10 at a working party out of nearly 140 members.  The reason the petty Hitlers stay on committees is because no-one else will put the effort in.  The only way to change things is to put yourself forward for election and be prepared to fight for your rights from the inside, but don't take it on if you can't spare time to share the chores, which I still do though no longer on the committee.

[flowerofshona2007]

It all depends on what is in the contract you sign either with a self managed site or council run !!
You sign that you agree to the terms and in our case that means no sheds, they do attract idiots and thieves, other sites in the area are always having breakins but we only have trouble once a year at pumpkin time !
We have a metal lock-up where tools can be stored and some have little tool stores but they MUST be under 1 meter high and they are checked, cant have one rule for one and hang the rest.
I go up the plot to work but we do have a bench to sit and chat on and we dont miss our shed (used to always have them on other sites). it can also make for a real eyesore if the sheds and not looked after.

[Flunky]

I cant imagine my allotment without a shed, it would'nt be right. Nothing better than fresh egg on toast and a cuppa on a cold morning. I have tomorrow off and intend ot go down and have a sort out. Cupa soup at the ready and copius amounts of tea. LOVERLY !!!!!!!!!!

On a different point, why should you not be allowed a shed just because some idiot may break in ? no difference to some idiot pulling up your veg. We still grow those though. Yet another case of the minority ruining it for everyone else. i think its just a stupid rule just there  to give someone something to moan about.

Good on you, rules are meant to be challenged if they are wrong and ignored if they are stupid.

[Trevor_D]

Yes - rules are to be challenged - but no - not ignored! We can't just go around ignoring the rules we disagree with. (What if I disagreed with the rules about mugging old ladies, or breaking into people's houses?)

The committee is there to run the site in the best interests of the site and its members, past, present & future. If you, as a member, don't agree with a committee decision, then challenge it in the legal way - at an AGM - and get the committee to justify their decision.

We have two sets of ancient lockers. (Just repaired & painted by recent working parties.) But not enough for 80 members! (Many of our original plots are now split into 2 or even 3.) So we allow sheds. But our tenancy agreement with our landlord states that all requests for buildings must go to them; as they only meet twice a year, and don't really want to be bothered with the nitty-gritty detail, they have passed that responsibility to the committee. So we have to monitor buildings on their behalf, and stipulate that permission must be sought in writing.

[Flunky]

Yes - rules are to be challenged - but no - not ignored! We can't just go around ignoring the rules we disagree with. (What if I disagreed with the rules about mugging old ladies, or breaking into people's houses?)

Its a shed. No one is saying its ok to break the criminal law or anything. Its a shed. Thats all.

I just think these rules are stupid. I cant think of one good reason why this guy cant have a shed.  If there is room and it doesnt infringe on someone else's plot. What the hay.

[Trevor_D]

I agree that - not knowing the site, the circumstances, the history, or any of the people involved - this rule about sheds seem plain daft.

My point was that you can't just go round breaking rules because you don't like them. (Not even daft ones like this!) There are sometimes - not always - good reasons for rules that are not immediately obvious. And if this rule gets broken illegally, then what's to stop someone else breaking another rule, and then another?

My point is: challenge the rule & the committee. If someone stands against the secretary the members can vote for whoever they prefer. If the majority of the members don't like the secretary's rules, he'll get voted out.

[flowerofshona2007]

Ok after being on sites with a shed and now on one without i can tell you that i would far rather have no sheds!!
On the old site it was comon for idiots to break into sheds and trash plots !!!
This site has very little in the way of break ins, sheds DO attract thiefs ! and morons and the stress of turning up to find your plot trashed and your tools stolen is enough for some people to give up their lottie which is a real shame  :(
We had a polytunnel on the old site and found it had been slashed to pieces over night  :'(
Fences and gates dont stop bored kids but prickly hedging helps  ;D
We still have a cuppa and a bacon roll up the lottie on a little gas ring and if its raining we sit in the car or the office or go home  ;D
If you cant live without a shed dont take a plot on a site that does not allow them !

[betula]

If you follow that line of thinking,the next thing will be a rule not allowing you to grow veg.These can get stolen or trashed.

The shed to me is a very important part of allotment life. :)

[Urban Phil]

I believe laws are to be broken and fortune favours the brave. I’m not saying that people should break rules for the sake of it but when something is intrinsically wrong and a ‘committee’ without going into details has continually broken its own constitution in order to enforce the unenforceable then something needs to be done. If throughout history people just towed the line and did as they were told we would be under the Nazi jackboot today.

Direct action is sometime needed, there are people out there who will continually try to erode your freedom and human rights and the only way to stop them is by fighting them!

Where the miners wrong to fight Margaret Thatcher and break the law to keep their jobs?

Where the people who took part in the Poll Tax Riots wrong when they broke the law and started fighting with the police in Trafalgar Square?

Some things are worth fighting for and if you have to break the rules to do it then so be it. I do have some sympathy for the argument that you have to fight things from the inside; this is perfectly right and proper if you’re dealing with rational and normal people but I personally have no wish to join the Nazi Party quite simply just to fight them!!!

I read an article with a recipe for making home made bombs from manure so I think I’ll don me tin hat, lock meself in me shed and prepare me ammunition…….I’m in for the long haul!

All the Best

Sergeant Mannering          

[flowerofshona2007]

Some laws are for the benefit of the majority and its not always for the best to fight them ! ie drink driving, just because one person thinks its ok to drink and drive should we change the law ???
Why not find out WHY sheds are not allowed ???? maybe many have been burnt out ect and the fire service refused to attend any shed fires as was the case here or the sites insurance does not allow them there could be a good reason.

[Urban Phil]

I did find out WHY sheds where not allowed and the ‘good reason’ why! It was quite simply because the secretary didn’t want them!!

Liverpool City Council approached the ‘committee’ and asked them to give a valid reason why I shouldn’t have a shed……..they failed to do so and the City Council granted the application…….simple as that.

It’s not as if the site is situated in the middle of a housing estate or a ‘rough’ part of Liverpool. This is in the ‘middle-class’ under belly of Liverpool, Calderstones Park and although that’s no security, location can prove an important factor in these things.

Anyhow, I’m off to build me Christmas Air Raid Shelter, I expect to see a lot of dirty sods and manure bombs flying round this Xmas!

All the Best

Private Pike

[cornykev]

Don't tell um your name PIKE.     :-X         ;D ;D ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

If a rule is seriously stupid then I think it's right to break it. Otherwise, the petty hitlers eventually get their own way, by wearing everyone else down if nothing else. Once they make it the rule, then the rule's the rule until you break it or have a revolution. Breaking it is often easier, and it then puts pressure on the rule-makers to justify it. As long as you're not causing problems for other people, where's the harm?

[elvis2003]

If a rule is seriously stupid then I think it's right to break it. Otherwise, the petty hitlers eventually get their own way, by wearing everyone else down if nothing else. Once they make it the rule, then the rule's the rule until you break it or have a revolution. Breaking it is often easier, and it then puts pressure on the rule-makers to justify it. As long as you're not causing problems for other people, where's the harm?

but but but,phil hasnt broken any rules,rather,he has bided by the rules laid down by liverpool city council,and got written approval for their shed.i agree with what you saying though robert.

[BENCHY]

As a fellow allotment holder at Harthill it is great to see someone has put up a new shed. I agree Phil has not broken any rules and indeed he has gone though the correct procedure filling in the Council's standard application form. There is nothing in the site Constitution banning sheds!
Indeed there is precedent here. On the north end of the site is an old 'Anderson Shelter' corrugated iron shed erected at least twenty years ago.
Around the site are old concrete foundations once used for greenhouses etc. It is difficult to see how the site Committee could justify any as yet unspecified 'ban' given the historic and existing precedent.


 

[elvis2003]

welcome to the site benchy,although im not a plotholder on your site,i follow this thread with great interest,as a plot holder and sec at sudley.great to hear your views and i hope you find this website as informative as i have!
if you havnt already,check out

http://www.flickr.com/groups/liverpool_allotments/

[cornykev]

Welcome Benchy and good luck to you and Phil with your future sheds, I know I certainly couldn't do without my shed and it's nice to see Elvis although not on the same site supporting you.  ;D ;D ;D

[saddad]

Welcome to the site Benchy..  :)