Topic: Trapping birds for bird food

[SamLouise]

I don't really know how I feel about this to be honest but I do know that I was distressed at the time.

Last week whilst we were in Scotland we visited the Argaty Red Kite site which was fantastic.  After spending hours in the hide watching them all, OH and I decided to follow one of the nature trails up across the fields and into the forest.  At the top of the hill, there was a cage made from what looked like chicken wire.  Cage measured about 7-8ft high and 3ft wide.  Inside the cage were three magpies, all flapping like crazy and throwing themselves from side to side (and I mean really throwing themselves) quite obviously in a very distressed state.  We walked up a bit closer but the cage was sectioned off with barbed wire fencing.  I acted rather girly and asked my OH if we could free them to which he replied a stern, NO!  I wandered off further to peer into the woods but when I turned back my OH had climbed the barbed wire fence and was taking pictures inside the cage (at the time I was thinking it must be for the RSPB/RSPCA) and then he opened the doors and freed the birds.  I was very proud of him and asked him what prompted such an action, to which he replied, 'the cage had a wire funnel coming in from the top so once the birds fell in, they couldn't get back out.  There's the remains of a pheasant on the ground which had obviously been tied up in two places and it just didn't seem right to me'  He said quite a bit more but along the same lines.  All of a sudden a farm tractor comes roaring up the hill so we legged it ( :-[ :-[ ;D)  We discussed on our walk what the reasoning must be behind the trap and in the end decided it obviously had something to do with feeding the birds of prey but also thought that birds of prey are quite capable of feeding themselves.

Once we'd finished the trail, we walked back down the hill and was stopped by the farmer who asked us several round and about questions (he obviously knew it was us) but we didn't give ourselves away.  In the end he just came out with it, 'I had three magpies trapped in a cage up on the hill and now they're gone' to which my OH replied, 'Yes, that was me' and I said, 'I'm really sorry, we thought they'd trapped themselves and we just wanted to free them'  He wasn't overly angry, more frustrated and explained to us that Scotland is doing a buzzard count and that he traps the magpies to entice the buzzards in to eat them, thus catching the buzzards for tagging.

Was just a bit upsetting really.  The poor magpies were like sitting ducks (ok, magpies) and OH said they looked as if they'd been in there a good while too.  I understand what the farmer's saying, don't get me wrong, but very upsetting all the same. 

I was going to post OH's pictures but they're not very nice so I don't think I will.  Sorry for the rant! No smart comments re magpies either, thank you!  :)
 

[thifasmom]

hmm! it sounds a bit suspect to me I've never heard of ringers using other birds to catch other birds for ringing and certainly if they did i would like to think they would try and ensure the birds  being used weren't unduly distressed. i wonder if he is poaching, but if it was on a designated  nature trail it might be legal what he is doing. maybe someone on here knows better. but to settle your mind and curiosity why don't you write the rspb an email and attach your photos as further evidence and they would be sure to respond I'm sure.

[Old bird]

Hi SamLouise - I also find these traps horrid.  They, I think, are called Larsen traps - they are designed specifically for magpies.  They will have been set by farmers/gamekeepers to keep the magpies from the birds bred for shooting!

Unfortunately the more flapping that they do attracts more magpies to the traps.  It was pretty unlikely that any of the magpies would have been released at all - I would think that was a load of bunkum spouted by the farmer who was probably too embarrased to tell you that they would all be killed.  Buzzards can be counted by watching them on the thermals in the sky not trying to catch magpies!

Having said that we have far too many magpies in my area and a few less would be appreciated. But I don't approve of traps, poisoning (which they also do) and keeping them for a while.  Shooting them to me is quick and final!

Old Bird

 :(

[thifasmom]

too many magpies too many foxes, too many badgers, too many fill in the gap, too many                  , too many                      I know too many humans and that's a fact >:(. OK off the soap box now :D.

here is a link found explaining the Larsen trap
http://www.againstcorvidtraps.co.uk/larsen_traps.html

Humans sometimes really make me sick, i can't think of any reason we do the cruel things we do as a species it is truly beyond me :-[ :'(.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Buzzards wouldn't normally kill magpies, though they might if they were caged up with them. I think that bit of it was bunkum.

[kenkew]

Magpies steal grouse and pheasent eggs along with other's. It's been going on since birds learnt to fly and the bird population has coped quite well with this natural annual event.
 The 'farmer' is catching magpies (and possibly crows which do the same thing) to up the game bird population in his sector. It's to do with money. More targets for guns means more in the 'farmer's' pocket!
 Well done to SamL's OH...!

PS: Setting such bird traps is illegal as they don't discriminate. A common practice not so long ago was to hang a crow by the neck on a minature gallows in a field to keep other crows away. It worked but it's not a method used where you would be likely to see it these days.

[debster]

thats barbaric and anyone that claimed to care enough to want to be able to count the birds of prey surely would never do such a thing, nature sorts out its own usually. good on you guys for setting them free
so sad :'(

[Mr Smith]

If a farmer wants to get rid of vermin and magpies can come under this heading then he applies for the appropriate licence to get rid of them, why did you  not in the first place make enquiries about the trapped birds before you vandalised this farmers trap,   

[debster]

if he wanted to get rid of vermin then he could have killed them humanely not left them trapped to die of starvation or shock or whatever, after all he apparantly knew they were there

[thifasmom]

humans always quick to call an animal vermin when the way they live messes with our so call better than their lives, but last time i checked the state of the earth has nothing to do with how animals live and survive and very much with how we live, so who do you think is the vermin.

i agree with debster, if he has permission to do this then he should take his responsibility seriously and do it in the most human way possible.

and opening a door without breaking a lock can hardly be classed as vandalism.

[SamLouise]

If a farmer wants to get rid of vermin and magpies can come under this heading then he applies for the appropriate licence to get rid of them, why did you  not in the first place make enquiries about the trapped birds before you vandalised this farmers trap,   

LOL @ you calling it vandalism when it was a simple case of unhooking the door latch, letting them fly out and hooking it back up again. 

[Mr Smith]

It was not your trap to mess about with in the first place how do you know what it was there for.

[SamLouise]

No, quite obviously it was not my trap to mess with, well spotted but since this trap did not meet the legal requirements that larsen traps are supposed to meet, my OH & I made it our business to do the right thing.  The law states that adequate food, water, perches and shelter must be provided for trapped birds - none of these were provided so I guess the farmer couldn't have really cared less.  We did.  I'd do it again tomorrow if I came across the same thing.  If the farmer doesn't want people to interfere in his dodgy goings on then he should abide by the rules, it's not rocket science.

[Toadspawn]

I really cannot understand why people go to the Countryside and interfere with something they know absolutely nothing about. If you cannot accept the ways of the Country then why on earth do you bother to go there?

The farmer was trapping the Magpies because they can do an incredible amount of damage to small birds and ground nesting birds. They would have been humanely destroyed. Get your facts right, no one in their right mind will catch and kill a Magpie to feed to a Buzzard. If the farmer was doing it to protect the ground nesting birds then it was being done to protect the shooting. In parts of the UK shooting is a very important source of income. Income is important to allow the farmer and his family and the work men and their families to live.

I hope you are satisfied that you have interfered with the income of a community. How would you like it if someone wandered across your garden and removed or altered something they did not like but which you had put there for a specific purpose. 

[SamLouise]

Get your facts right, no one in their right mind will catch and kill a Magpie to feed to a Buzzard.

Hmmmm, let me see, how about you get your facts right because I didn't actually say that ..... the farmer did.  Perhaps you could let him know?

[betula]

I don't see how releasing three magpies will affect the income of a whole community. ::)

[sawfish]

I dont agree with any traps but after seeing how evil magpies can be, I find it hard to feel sorry for them. I know they dont mean it but there are far too many of them.

The fact is magpies must be controlled or else we will suffer the consequences with all the rarer small birds having their nests raided etc etc.

Its all very well being all lovely and caring and saying its all the fault of humans in the first place but we're not allowed to cull humans. You must look at the bigger picture. Nature is cruel too.

So how should we deal with too many magpies????

[Jeannine]

Well SamLouise, if I had been there I would have done exactly what you did!!!! Wether that was vandalising, stealing or poking my nose into country affairs. I would release anything that was distressed.

Well done you two, you get my pat on the back.

XX Jeannine

[thifasmom]

nature isn't cruel nature is nature. and please do your research even the RSPB has done extensive research re magpie numbers affecting songbirds numbers and it was found that it didnot make a significant difference to warrent culling. it was found that it was the removal and destruction of said sound birds habitat was the real major effect to the reduction and slow increase of their numbers. what has happened is that us humans have mucked up the natural world so much that the stronger of most species will sometimes survive if they can adapt to this new altered environment all be it an uneven playing Field. what we need to do is not always look for the easy short term solution of simply culling but redress the balance by recreating the very habitats we have messed up to give the more vulnerable species an opportunity to build their populations.

and in case anyone thinks i'm just making it up here is alink to the RSPB findings.http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/magpies/songbirds.asp

[sawfish]

Magpies like living amongst people as do all the crow family, as long as we have rubbish heaps and garbage lying around magpies will multiply big style. I've watched magpies raiding nests and killing chicks, despite this link I find it hard to believe they make no difference.

Lets face it the RSPB are always going to paint a pretty picture of birds and aren't going to warrant culling under any circumstance.

I dont think anything will be done to improve songbirds habitat much as I'd like it too, there's no financial gain in it for our increasingly greedy human race. They'll talk about it and do nothing.