Topic: Trapping birds for bird food

[Barnowl]

Although the point about habitat is well made, I've seen footage of magpies working their way along a hedge ( the habitat that is meant to protect songbirds) systematically taking eggs and fledglings. Why the RSPB ignore this is beyond me.

I should point out that Jays and even woodpeckers also raid nests, but in town especially as well as magpies, the main enemies are cats and squirrels.

Nesting boxes are pretty safe from magpies (given the right entrance hole size) but unless reasonably deep are vulnerable to woodpeckers

[thifasmom]

magpies, Jays, woodpeckers, crows, sparrowhawks, etc have always eaten songbirds as a small part of their diet (except the sparrowhawk that's pretty much all they do eat) and they always will, regardless of how we feel. wildlife is not here to protect us but we certainly have a duty to protect it and that includes aspects that might seem cruel, because it all adds up to a healthy and diverse environment. ethics need to be applied to the species that understand ethics IE us not at wildlife cause they only truly understand survival.

we really need to plough money into habitat reconstruction (yes i know the greedy powers that be won't want to do this) but us gardeners can at least on a smaller scale do the best that we individually can to help wildlife in our own patches (imagine if we all did, can you imagine the positive impact that would make), re songbird and small mammal predation can also be lessened by us pet owners being responsible by belling our felines or letting them out only during the day and not at sunset or dawn when these wildlife types are most active and so may be more at risk.

this link i think really explains things better than i ever could:

http://www.essexwt.org.uk/leaflets/magpies.htm

and on a lighter note here is a magpie taking its life in its own hands/ should that be wings ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugwNOKdVcs

[debster]

i totally understand that there are times when interventions have to be made in order to protect certain species, but this can be done quickly and humanely not leaving birds or animals trapped for hours, days etc to die a slow painful death, and as the farmer very obviously knew that the birds were there why did he just leave them and not do something about it???
im not totally thick, i have lived for years in the countryside before moving to a city i just think its barbaric to leave something to suffer and totally unneccessary

[keef]

Magpies cause problems when lambing - attacking young lambs, pecking at thier eye's, even killing them.. I suspect thats the reason he was trapping them.

[Mr Smith]

S&L, and looking on page 35 of one of the national papers today I suppose that was just a simple case of unhooking a catch door on some cage that was housing  Mink(well done you antis out there) which attacked a Swan, but you would not touch something that was not yours to touch would you,

[kenkew]

Magpies cause problems when lambing - attacking young lambs, pecking at thier eye's, even killing them.. I suspect thats the reason he was trapping them.

That's a load of rubbish. I lived in the country most of my life and have worked on scores of farms. Magpies and Crows will peck a lamb/sheeps eyes, yes. But only on a dead animal.
 It's this sort of scare-mongering which originates from scant knowledge and 'house-wife tales that cause more damage than the feathered offender!!  >:(

 Nature has left us all we see. It did very well until 'something' upset it. If the balance of nature is out of sinc, it's to do with humans, not animals.

[posie]

Nature has left us all we see. It did very well until 'something' upset it. If the balance of nature is out of sinc, it's to do with humans, not animals.

Well said kenkew, exactly what I was trying to find the words to say.

[OllieC]

Well ken, sorry to disagree. I'm currently sitting in a room with my Mother in Law who used to farm sheep, and she remembers live lambs getting their eyes pecked out...

I think it's disgusting that anyone thinks they have the right to show such a lack of respect for the owners of land going about their legal business. It's acts like this that make farmers afraid of townies walking across their land. The originator of this post has messed about with something that is none of her business & that she doesn't understand, and should be ashamed of herself...

[keef]

Magpies cause problems when lambing - attacking young lambs, pecking at thier eye's, even killing them.. I suspect thats the reason he was trapping them.

That's a load of rubbish. I lived in the country most of my life and have worked on scores of farms. Magpies and Crows will peck a lamb/sheeps eyes, yes. But only on a dead animal.
 It's this sort of scare-mongering which originates from scant knowledge and 'house-wife tales that cause more damage than the feathered offender!!  >:(

 Nature has left us all we see. It did very well until 'something' upset it. If the balance of nature is out of sinc, it's to do with humans, not animals.

A shepard on the local farm told me this...

[betula]

Nobody should ever be ashamed of themselves for relieving the suffering of a living creature.

Yes if they peck the eyes of sheep it is disgusting but they are doing what their instincts tell them to do.

I would have released them without hesitation. >:(

[debster]

Ollie can i ask a question seriously i gather it is legal to trap the birds but is it legal to leave them there to die like that or should they have been euthanised, i ask cos i genuinely do not know because it is apparant that he realised they were there

[OllieC]

The only time I've ever seen trapping of magpies it went like this - it takes weeks to catch the first one, and then once you get that, all the others come along & you can catch one every few days. You then kill the first one (neck rung, quickly dispatched), and the new one is the "bait". It's not cruel - any more than keeping a budgie in a cage. You have to feed & water them while they're in there. Also, it is entirely discriminate - you have to check the trap at least once a day by law... or did a few years ago.

I can't see how this is cruel.

[betula]

Ollie I think you know full well it is cruel and you are perhaps stirring the pot a little ::)

[debster]

now done properly as you say i can understand it, nothing was said about feeding and watering and if they are checked daily, im not saying i agree with it but done properly for a proven need then i guess i can understand it, i dont work in the countryside and never have but i would prefer things to be done humanely and things like this not to happen

[OllieC]

Ollie I think you know full well it is cruel and you are perhaps stirring the pot a little ::)

Nope, not at all betula! It's nowhere near as crual as, say, the treatment of a battery hen.

[ceres]

Magpies are classified as a pest (Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981) and they can be culled to protect crops or livestock, wild birds or public health and safety.  Ollie's right about trapping - the trap must be checked at least once every 24 hours and if a decoy bird is used, it has to be fed and watered.  Doesn't sound like there was anything illegal going on.

[ceres]

That's really weird - there was a post from kenkew which I was replying to and now it's gone!  Second thoughts, eh?

[Robert_Brenchley]

Years ago, a shepherd up near Loch Lomond spent a lot of time observing what happened to new-born lambs. People had been assuming that foxes killed them, but he found they were bieng killed by crows, which did indeed peck their eyes out. That's a much bigger bird though, and unless someone has some real evidence, I'm a bit sceptical about magpies doing it.

[Georgie]

The only time I've ever seen trapping of magpies it went like this - it takes weeks to catch the first one, and then once you get that, all the others come along & you can catch one every few days. You then kill the first one (neck rung, quickly dispatched), and the new one is the "bait". It's not cruel - any more than keeping a budgie in a cage. You have to feed & water them while they're in there. Also, it is entirely discriminate - you have to check the trap at least once a day by law... or did a few years ago.

I can't see how this is cruel.

Okay another townie here but I think that's cruel too.  I'd never keep a budgie in a cage either.

G x

[kenkew]

My daughter is a farmer and they have 18 cows and something like 200 sheep. I'll have a word with her ASAP and get the truth of the matter regarding the pecking of live lambs eyes.
 Regarding the comparison of 'Cruelty to Magpies V's Battery hens'. Is cruelty really measured in the amount or type or comparison of suffering?
 The capture cage the 'farmer had set up didn't seem to me to be a magpie only capture system and by the condition of the captured birds it certainly doesn't sound to be at all a legel set-up.
 My B.I.Law dismantled many such 'coppies' he came across because they also capture not only birds of many species but animals too.
 Had it been me, I would have taken the whole thing down and challenge him to prosocute me. (After having had a word with the RSPB and the RSPCA...! )