Topic: Heavy Clay Soil

[sandra Riley]

Any ideas how long it takes for really heavy clay soil to improve, OH has dug it over many times since we took our plot over in October, he has dug in loads of rotted down leaves and manure !  The clods of earth he turned over and left on top are now like concrete blocks!  Its just a bit frustrating when the seed packet tells you to sow into finely tilled soil!!

[froglets]

From experience, I'd reccommend breaking down clods when the soil is damp, rather than leaving them in big lumps.  We find this improves the mixing through of manure etc and helps to stop the concrete effect.  It menas twice as much work whenever you turn over the soil, but worth it.  I'm a bit manic about constantly breaking down the lumps.

You can also sow in trenches of compost to give the smaller plants a chance,  or like many of us here, start as much as possible in pot s& transplant.

Cheers

[betula]

My soil is heavy clay and I have given in and began to put in raised beds.
Wet weather you have liquid mud,hot weather something like house bricks.

 :)

[Trevor_D]

It does improve with time - dig it twice a year and add manure & compost.

How old is your site? And what state was the plot in when you took it on? Our site is on badly-drained London clay and - being originally a Poor's Field - is not the best land in the area! But the site is nearly a century old and those plots that have been in cultivation for a long time have beautiful soil.

And no, I'm not suggesting that it will take you that long to see an improvement!! With the upsurge of interest in allotments, we are now opening up plots that have long been out of cultivation and the soil that newcomers are trying to cope with is grotty in the extreme. But even after a couple of years, the difference is noticeable. We're constantly showing newcomers productive plots and pointing out that a few years ago they were just as bad as the plot they're trying to bash into shape.

[betula]

You will  see an improvement after many years but in my experience not in a couple of years. :)

[davyw1]

You will only get out of the soil what work you put into to it. if you are not prepared to do a lot of deep digging then don,t complain at bad results.
Three year ago i took a plot next to mine and i have the present one for 30 years, in that time it was never worked, nothing done to it at all I cleared it of all the rubbish and found 30 road cones which you could not see.
When i went to put potato,s in there was no more than 6 to 10 inches of top soil i dug out the trenches with a spit down to 18" back filled with manure trampling it down to spade depth to plant my spud back filled with the soil and kept the clay on the top. I burnt everything of using the Kiln fire method, when my spuds were out i double dug again with the spit filling every trench with with more compost and soil that was left from the kiln. Now after three years of digging, rotorvating and raking i get back all i have put into it.
If you don,t want back ache take up knitting, i am now doing four cardigans a week
 

[betula]

Your obsession sorry skill with all that digging is commendable dear boy,
however you must accept that copious knitting does take up valuable digging time.It is hard to accept this fact but true.

[saddad]

Even top laying with organic matter will give results (no-dig)... and clay at least has lots of nutrients locked in... not leached out as on sand...
 ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

I wouldn't have bothered with the double digging! If it was really dreadful I'd have dug organic matter in for a couple of years to get it started, then after that I'd just have mulched.

[albacore1854]

Good stuff davyw, too few diggers out there nowadays.Bloomin no dig, raised beds etc.more like tireditis.

[betula]

If raised beds were good enough for Geoff Hamilton they are certainly good enough for me.

I have done my share of digging but I know when I am beat.I would actually like to grow something.

Also the supply of this constant improver to the soil can be very hard.Some sites have loads of stuff to hand ,others do not.

I resent the inference that raised bed people are lazy.

Why not just accept that people have different ways of tackling problems.

[albacore1854]

Good and bad in all, however in my experience the new starters who go no-dig, or raised beds, have a higher failure rate than the diggers.

[davyw1]

Your obsession sorry skill with all that digging is commendable dear boy,
however you must accept that copious knitting does take up valuable digging time.It is hard to accept this fact but true.

BETULA, I love the dear BOY bit thank you for the compliment if ever we meet i will buy you a drink.
I am not knocking the way anyone does their gardening, what i am saying is if you get the hard graft out of the way at the begining then things get easier later    if a person is not willing to put a bit of graft into improving the soil and don,t get the results they expect then they do not have the right to complain.
After all if one was to work out just how much digging is done over the year compared to other work that is done its not a lot.

I wouldn't have bothered with the double digging! If it was really dreadful I'd have dug organic matter in for a couple of years to get it started, then after that I'd just have mulched.

ROBERT I think you would have bothered if you Cauli,s and Cabbages were getting blown over because there was not enough soil depth.

[sandra Riley]

Thanks for all your comments, OH has put in many, many hours digging it over and over, we only have a half plot and we have put a polytunnel at one end!
The allotment site is quite old I think and there are a good few who have worked their plots for years and years and their soil is ok.  My spinach is just peeking through, I sowed it in compost on top of the soil, made a bit of a trench.
Its soooo exciting seeing something coming up!!!  I fear I am becoming obsessed!

[betula]

In my experience men ,however old they are tend to act like boys so you are forever youngLOL ;D

Yes I look forward to that drink,you bring the spade and I will bring the knitting

Happy gardening :)

[bupster]

After all if one was to work out just how much digging is done over the year compared to other work that is done its not a lot.

Crikey, not on my planet. Can only get up there at the weekends, and not every weekend, so ongoing battle with couch (winning at present) means that digging far outweighs everything else I do.

Depends on your time and your physical fitness and the availability of organic stuff I reckon. I dig, but not sure that I would if I had that kind of soil, and certainly not sure that I always will. Ease off, kids, we all have our idiosyncrasies.

[Robert_Brenchley]

ROBERT I think you would have bothered if you Cauli,s and Cabbages were getting blown over because there was not enough soil depth.

Surely you don't put them more than a spit deep?

[littlebabybird]

davyw1
what is the Kiln fire method please
lbb

[davyw1]

ROBERT I think you would have bothered if you Cauli,s and Cabbages were getting blown over because there was not enough soil depth.

Surely you don't put them more than a spit deep?

No before i dug the garden with the spit i had no depth, after it was dug and worked on i then got the depth

[betula]

Gardeners years ago used to make bonfires on Clay to help break it down.Ithink this is what he is talking about. :)