Topic: WHAT KIND OF SOCIETY ARE WE?

[asbean]

Daily mail readers don't know the difference between a refugee, an asylum seeker, an illegal immigrant or an economic migrant.  They don't want to, and wouldn't know one if they met one.  Of course their darling niece or nephew from Australia who'd overstayed their visa - now, they couldn't be a "proper" illegal immigrant, now could they?  Doesn't apply to them.

For information for those who would like to find out more about asylum seekers and refugees perhaps spending some time on these sites would quash any notions that they have a comfortable life sponging benefits and housing from those who "deserve" them:

Refugee council http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/
Refugee Action http://www.refugee-action.org.uk/
NCACD http://www.ncadc.org.uk/
Asylum Aid http://www.asylumaid.org.uk/
UNHCR http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home

And check out articles on Asylum - there have been plenty in the Independent.

[Pesky Wabbit]

Would it make you happier if WE had to walk miles to the nearest well for water to even out life's inbalances?

I don't think that would be very sensible now, would it? However to ensure everybody on the plant has access to  fresh water, is, surly, a human rite.

We have more than others due to hard work by our forefathers.  We are lucky in the country of (most of us) our birth.

Correct. Our forefathers worked very hard packing ships with Africans, so they could take them for a 'holiday' on the Carabean plantations.
They worked hard, exterminating tribes in southern Africa. They worked hard subduing the peoples of the Indian subcontinent.

It is an unfortunate fact that if we spread the worlds resources equally around the world, there would still be wars, there would still be hunger because of mans greed!

So, if you were in charge, would you declare war on anyone who is not British so that you could have a better quality life?

We didn't rob ... we just  got rich grabbing ...

And the difference being ?

We didn't rob other countries of their Empire we just got rich grabbing land  ...

Grab land, kill anyone who objected, grabbed all obvious natural resources (eg. diamonds), made the indigenous work the land and then tax them for working their own land.

The British Empire which as you are well aware does no longer exist.  

I think they call it The Common Wealth now. A collection of counties, many of which are Third World, which the British have some responsibility for their state today. Buy, hey, let them starve, nothing to do with us.

The countries that we are talking about are European and we didn't take them over Pesky Wabbit!!

Strange, I thought this thread was about Society. The clue is in the subject title.

It is a sad fact of life Pesky Wabbit - life is not fair!  You just have to make the best of what you have!

Quite right, life is not fair. This country, has built up its fortune on the backs of others, and when it comes to repay some of that debt, we don't want to know.

You just have to make the best of what you have!

The government that YOU elected has given peoples of other countries certain rights to come to this country. All they are doing is making the best of what they can.

Is that wrong ?

As you state, The British Empire no longer exists, and things have been going down hill ever since. Is it not time we woke up and realize that we no longer rule the world, and should be integrating into it instead.

Should India and China be prohibiting British subjects from entering their country and cashing in on their booming economies, just as the Eastern Europeans/Asians are doing here ?

As stated elsewhere, we have a generation of 'can't work, won't work' in this country. In 10 years time, they will be the mainstay of the British economy. Who will be funding your state pension then ?

[Old bird]

Pesky Wabbit

You don't agree with me then?!!

Old Bird

 ::)

[SamLouise]

Pesky Wabbit

You don't agree with me then?!!

Old Bird

 ::)

^^

[Froglegs]

We have more than others due to hard work by our forefathers. We are lucky in the country of (most of us) our birth.

Correct. Our forefathers worked very hard packing ships with Africans, so they could take them for a 'holiday' on the Carabean plantations.
They worked hard, exterminating tribes in southern Africa. They worked hard subduing the peoples of the Indian subcontinent.

Yes our forefathers......bugger all to do with me!!

[betula]

Hey Guys,remember my poor elderly chap who was locked up for non payment of council tax four pages ago???He is feeling kinda neglected :D :D :D :D

[Suzanne]

Betula - did you know what you were starting when you let us know about your old chap?  :o

[valmarg]

Q.WHAT KIND OF SOCIETY ARE WE?
A. Sadly one that spends way too much time reading the Daily Mail. As ever its chinese whispers so and so saying to so and so and before you know it some one takes it as gospel.

D'you know, despite redclangers accusations, I have never read the Daily Mail!  In fact I haven't bought a newspaper for years.

valmarg

[valmarg]

Hey Guys,remember my poor elderly chap who was locked up for non payment of council tax four pages ago???He is feeling kinda neglected :D :D :D :D

As I said then, the lunatics are running the asylum.

In yesterday's paper there was a story about a shopkeeper who was confronted by a knife wielding, serial criminal for his takings.  In the ensuing struggle the robber was killed.  Guess what!!  the shopkeeper is being accused of murder.

[Old bird]

D'you know, despite redclangers accusations, I have never read the Daily Mail!  In fact I haven't bought a newspaper for years.

valmarg

[Old bird]

Sorry can't get the hang of this much![quote author=Old bird

D'you know, despite redclangers accusations, I have never read the Daily Mail!  In fact I haven't bought a newspaper for years.

valmarg


What was that Valmarg - in the papers yesterday?!!

I think you will find that a report has gone to the CPS.  There is no suggestion at the moment that this guy is being accused for murder but the Police have to follow up and investigate all information to make sure that there was no foul play on the part of the poor shopkeeper.

Potentially, there is a chance of bumping off no good nerks (as allegedly said robber) by other people that may have a grudge against them and then make it appear that they got stabbed in the process.  I do not believe that this was the case in this incident but this is why the police have to follow up these incidents.

I bet that he is not charged - but it is police talk for following procedure!

I think it is very easy to jump to conclusions when reading reports in the paper.  Sometimes the truth doesn't make interesting reading so is never reported.  It is headlines they are after.

Old Bird

[twinkletoes]

If the old fella is still inside - he's managed 3 days more, so far, than he did the first time around. Unfortunately, the law of the land is that you pay your taxes.  This old fella has said that he can afford to pay but refuses to pay and made that decision knowing the consequences.  He's not speaking out or protesting on my behalf and I did not ask him to make a stand on my behalf, so I do not feel responsible or sorry for his incarceration - which is the result of a decision he made for himself on his own behalf.  But, I do hope he is released soon.  ;)
Twinkletoes

[Old bird]

Twinkletoes

What would we have to chat about if he got released?!!!

I totally agree with your sentiments and now I am leaving this topic for everyone else to add the fourpennyworth.

I will go and find something else controversion to play with!

Old Bird

 ;D

[twinkletoes]

well you made it a livlier subject for a while there old bird.   ;D
Twinkletoes

[redimp]

Q.WHAT KIND OF SOCIETY ARE WE?
A. Sadly one that spends way too much time reading the Daily Mail. As ever its chinese whispers so and so saying to so and so and before you know it some one takes it as gospel.

D'you know, despite redclangers accusations, I have never read the Daily Mail!  In fact I haven't bought a newspaper for years.

valmarg

Sorry  :-[ Torygraph then???? ;D ;)

BTW - from my legal background - all suspiciuous deaths have to be investigated.  If we jsut took a killer's (justified or not) word for it, where would we be?  Which paper said he was being done for it btw?

[Barnowl]

Torygraph said the case would be referred to the CPS  for their consideration... pretty sure it didn't say he was being done for it - must have been the Mail :D

I've always found left wing papers just as bad but in the opposite direction. I reckon once you're used to a paper you can mentally adjust as you read to allow for its idiosyncrasies  provided it has at least some factual content.

[valmarg]

Torygraph said the case would be referred to the CPS  for their consideration... pretty sure it didn't say he was being done for it - must have been the Mail :D

As I said I've never read the Mail.

Let's take another scenario of what a rubbish country this is to live in.

According to today' radio an ex-fighter pilot from WW2 will be demonstrating outside the houses of parliament today.

He fought for the country, he worked all his life, paid his taxes, and in his old age he has been found to be suffering from macular degenerative eye disease.  Having paid into the unhealthy service all his life, now, in his old age, he needs treatment.  He is being told to bugger off and go blind.

England is not a country t grow old in!!

valmarg

[Jeannine]

Valmarg..now that is disgusting.

I am sorry to have to say this, but having been in the position of living in the Uk for 35 years, then in North America for the next 25 or so, then back here for the last 7 years, I do speak from a  vantage point of when I say the UK has gone down the toilet. There is so much that is poor now, it is hard knowing where to begin, and I want to say nice things, this is after all my homeland, but the fact is  Valmarg is right. Compared to a third world country we are good, but compared to the countries we should be like we really are rubbish.

Sadly rubbish breeds rubbish and I dread to think where it will end.

XX Jeannine

[grawrc]

Two little points which I hope will not result in too much raised blood pressure:
my father-in-law's blindness is the result of macular degeneration and therefore I have walked the NHS walk and talked the NHS talk with him over the past 10 years or so. All NHS contacts have been helpful and supportive and willing to do anything possible to improve his condition, however the bottom line is that there is currently no way of stopping macular degeneration. They are working on replacing the damaged macula just as they currently do with lenses and cataracts but the treatment is still experimental and so cannot be used on us punters yet.

my second point is to do with the honesty and fulness of reporting both in newspapers and radio/TV. Firstly we only get to know what "they" want us to know unless we are prepared to trawl our nets wider. I am in the habit of reading the press and listening to the radio broadcasts of quite a few of our European neighbours and it is most enlightening to see the different points of view. Very often something reported in British media is viewed totally differently by several other countries. This sometimes leads me to suspect that reporting here is partisan and misleading at least some of the time. Anyway newspapers in the UK are so dumbed down nowadays that it's hard to find any serious reporting.

[Tohellwithweeds]

the kind of society we live is when you come from a differant country you get all the benefits available, housing, new car, that our British oap have paid for and most of them (if they are like my dad and been carefull with there money and own there house) have never drained the system as much as the influx of foreigners has. my dad is 81 has his own private pension and three little part time jobs that he HAS to have to help make ends meet. my mother who stayed at home to look after us kids is 71 and she has a small pension and has 7 jobs to help dad with the house hold bills they don't live beyond there means don't claim benefits and never have so yes it makes me sick when you see another foreign body on the streets wearing the latest clothes that you just know you have paid for society sucks and what is great about Britain any more

Tohellwithweeds

I cannot imagine that your parents need to work as many jobs as you say just to live!

Surely you could help them in providing  them with sufficient veg to help them out.  You say they don't spend beyond their means -  sounds to me as if they do.  The joint retirement pension plus their small pension should take care of the basics plus food, heat, light and power.  I cannot imagine that if you were able to  help them out a bit with veg etc from your lottie they couldn't slow down a bit!

I do and will continue to do so live very cheaply.  I eat mostly vegetables, I run a car, I pay a mortgage, insurances, heat and light and I still manage to have a bit of fun!  Just like hundreds of thousands of us.  When I do eventually retire, I will not be able to afford to run a car but everything else should be OK.  I am sure that there aren't many pensioners doing what your folk are doing just to survive.  There are many that do manage to survive - albeit not living grandly - on the basic state pension.

yes old bird they do HAVE to work as they DONT claim any benefits as they have said "we never did before so why should we now"and i don't think paying there bills is living beyond there means my dad goes out to the pub once a year with us and he has half a bitter and that's on his birthday my mum doesn't drink or smoke and as for giving them veg from my lotty i only got it last year so i haven't planted any thing yet and when i do i will be giving them veg but i don't think that will pay there council tax