Topic: Apple cordon trees

[davholla]

Cordons
A cordon tree is a single stem grown at a 45 degree angle, which produces fruiting spurs along its whole length. They usually reach a height of 2.4m (8ft). Trees trained in this way should always be secured to a framework, such as horizontal wires tied to posts or attached to a fence, with at least a 5cm (21/2in) gap behind them to allow the air to circulate. They should ideally be grafted onto M27, M9 or M26 rootstocks and spaced at least 75cm (2ft 6in) apart.

Planting this way allows many varieties to be grown alongside one another in a relatively small space and you can almost guarantee successful pollination by planting compatible trees together. Growing them at an angle also helps curb excessive growth, which allows the trees to concentrate their energy into producing fruit.

To prune cordon trees this month, cut back each side shoot to three leaves or around 7.5cm (3in). If the shoots have laterals themselves, these can be cut back to one leaf, which will encourage spur growth.

Minarettes
These trees are like cordons, but they are planted upright, producing fruiting spurs along their whole length. As they are grown straight, their stems are usually shorter – if they were allowed to grow to the same size as cordons their height would make them much more difficult to maintain.

Minarettes reach a height of 1.8–2.4m (6–8ft) and can be planted closer together than cordons – you can leave just 60cm (2ft) between trees, which makes them an ideal choice for container growing in small gardens. Just make sure a pollinating partner is located nearby (try Ken Muir, 01255 830 181) and that you water them regularly – otherwise they can become stressed. Prune them in exactly the same way you would cordons, but remove a third of this season’s new growth from the leader to reduce the tree's vigour. A single stem like this can also be trained up arches or pergolas as a decorative feature on your plot.

To prune minarettes, remove all ties joining the stem to the cane and then cut back a third of the current season's new growth from the leader. Prune all laterals to three leaves or around 7.5cm (3in) and any sub-laterals to one leaf, before gently tying the stem back onto the cane.

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/diary/2007/august/fruit.php

Have people grown these ?  What do you think about them ?  Most importantly a) where did you buy them from b) what stocks c) what yield d) how quickly.

[Spanner]

I planted 5 cordens in our back garden this spring, along a east facing fence. 2 apple, 1 pear and 2 plum. I didn't get much of a crop this year but the bramley did produce 3 really large cookers and I had a number of smaller ones that didn't mature. The other apple didn't set for some reason, not sure why and the other 3 trees just bulked up this year.  I got the apple trees and the pear from RHS Wisley as a pressie and the plums were ordered from Deacon's Nursery Godshill, Isle of Wight. There are loads of different types that can be supplied as cordens. Plums are not traditionally grown this way but you can train them yourself from a maiden tree. They need a bit more space than apples and pears but as long as they are on a dwarf rootstock thenI am told they should be fine.

[davholla]

Thanks for that.  How much space do your 2 apple trees need ?

[Toadspawn]

I have 7 apple and 2 pear Minarette fruit trees from Ken Muir. A plum and a cherry died but do not rate the cherry as a Minarette.
Trees planted 2 ft apart. The pears so far not very productive but 4 superb fruit this year. Lets hope for better things next year. The cooking apple not very good this year, small fruit and they fell off before maturing unlike last year. Eating apples produce enough fruit maturing over a few months for me to be able to pick 2-3 apples every day for a few months. I don't bother to store them and eat them whilst walking around the garden and GH. 
They are autumn pruned and each tree takes up a space of about 1 ft in diameter after pruning, although there is overlap of branches during the growing season.

In a previous garden I had cordon pears given to me by a gardener who let them grow unchecked after a few years. They were planted about 3 ft apart and supported at an angle on wires. Severe pruning was required in the first year to get the plants back into shape. Therefore not a lot of fruit and unfortunately I had to move before they became established properly.   

Pruning is very important for any fruit tree grown in a restricted way and must be done every year without fail or the plants lose their structure and shape.

[davholla]

were they planted last year ?  If so your apple trees have done really well.

[Toadspawn]

No. This is now their third season in the garden but because I was forced to move from a previous garden (the matrimonial courts!!) they spent one year in very large pots because I had only just bought them and was not going to leave them for anyone else.
I am very pleased with them, the amount of fruit is more than adequate for my needs and the fresh taste is absolutely superb but it would not win any prizes on a show bench or get anywhere any of the supermakets.

[davholla]

No. This is now their third season in the garden but because I was forced to move from a previous garden (the matrimonial courts!!) they spent one year in very large pots because I had only just bought them and was not going to leave them for anyone else.
I am very pleased with them, the amount of fruit is more than adequate for my needs and the fresh taste is absolutely superb but it would not win any prizes on a show bench or get anywhere any of the supermakets.

In that case my wife want us to move in 2 but will probably be 3 years do you think it is worth planting minarretes/cordons or will we not have time to enjoy them ?

[Toadspawn]

I don't honestly know.
I think Minarettes may be easier to move than cordons and young trees move better than old ones. I had only had my Minarettes for a year, whereas the pears must have been at least 4 years old maybe/probably more and had a well developed root system. Minarettes are apparently OK in large pots but like any pot grown plant that is pot grown does require more water and fertiliser. If you know you are going to move I would be tempted to have Minarettes because no support framework is required. Maybe put them in large pots or plant them where you can get at them easily and move them as bare rooted plants? Just a thought but no real knowledge, perhaps I was just lucky.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[davholla]

We will not be taking them with us, we will be letting the house and then after a year returning to the UK or selling it.

I just wonder if a) it will help the house sell I think it would look nice and b) if I will get any apples !

[Barnowl]

I may be wrong, and sorry if this is teaching grandma..., but it is probably a good idea to make sure at least two of the varieties are in the same pollination group. Although some apples and pears are self fertile they will still not produce as much fruit as they would with a pollinator around,

[davholla]

I may be wrong, and sorry if this is teaching grandma..., but it is probably a good idea to make sure at least two of the varieties are in the same pollination group. Although some apples and pears are self fertile they will still not produce as much fruit as they would with a pollinator around,

Actually that is one of the few things I do know.
But thanks anway !
Do you grow any apples yourself ? 
I have a small garden but at the back in January I should have space for cordons.
I already do have 2 small M26 trees.

[Toadspawn]

Thought a bit more about it.
In the first year after planting you are supposed to remove all the flowers and let the tree establish - I didn't but only had a couple of apples. In the second year produced a reasonable crop  (there is only me here to eat the fruit), last year was much better and this year pretty good. I should think that maybe in the second year after planting you  should get some apples and in the third year the crop could be quite reasonable. Therefore persuade your OH that you should not move until after you have had a fruit harvest in the third year.
It might help to sell the house to see a well stocked garden but don't belive the buyer when they say they love the garden and desperately want to continue cultivating it. I did when I sold the house and within a year most of the garden had been grassed over and everything I left was destroyed.

[davholla]

Thanks for that.  I would be good to see some fruits before we emmigrate to South America.

[Barnowl]

Yes, we've two apple (Falstaff and Winter Gem), two pear (Doyenne de Comice and Conference), two damson trees and an apricot. I'm espaliering the apples and pears and trying to fan the apricot - hoping brother-in- law who actually knows how to prune will visit soon - he showed me last year but I've forgotten already. :)

[Deb P]

I plsnted some Lidl cheapie trees last April and pruned them as cordons, they have settled in well despite the April drought and look like they have established well. Didn't have the heart to pick off all of the flowers, so have two fruits this year! I planted them as criss cross cordons to make a nice screen across the plot.....

[star]

Is that your garden Deb? Im thinking....... I have sacrificed a lot of growing space to have my paths. It looks very productive :D 

[Deb P]

That's my plot, had it since August last year, on the waiting list for a second..... ;D

The beauty of cordons is that they take up so little space, and can look decorative too. I have some at home that are arranged against a ordinary panelled fence, posher trees though from Deacons. They are 13 years old now, I put them in as maidens when we first moved here and they fruit really well.

[davholla]

I am confused :-

I got this from Deacon's nursery :-

Minarettes or columnar trees are just a fancy word for cordons. They all need pruning in the same way. Ballerina trees are the only trees that require no pruning at all.

The reason I am confused is that my fruit book shows cordon trees at an angle ?
Can they also be grown vertically ?

[Barnowl]

I can't understand why they write that. Cordons have several main branches trained horizontally; columns and Minarettes (which is just a Ken Muir trade name for a column) are, like their name suggests, vertical spires.

I imaging the pruning is similar but the shapes certainly aren't.

[Spanner]

Sorry to disagree with you barnowl, but a cordon has a single main stem and is grown at an angle of up to 45deg. The columns or minarettes seem to be the same type of thing, just grown vertically instead of at an angle. The advantage of the cordon is that the angle means the main stem can be longer for the same overall height. I imagine that cordons, Minarettes and columns would all be pruned in exactly the same way.