Topic: Don`t care if I tread on toes!

[e4e5Kt-f3]

 I`m really struggling to get any wild birds in my small garden. Today, I find under a small bush at the top of the garden a dead female blackbird, one of a pair that has only recently began to visit my lawn for worms and grubs. I have no doubt whatsoever that a cat killed it. (There are eight... EIGHT cats residing within a twenty yard radius of where i live.
Personally I would reinstate the stocks and incarcerate cat owners once a year for my own personal pleasure.... for pleasure is the only reason for all this killing by cats.
I`m sorry but I am f***ing mad about this.... and cat owners DO NOT HAVE ANY DEFENCE on this issue. They keep cats for there own pleasure and cats kill other creatures (including butterflies, bees, damsels, dragonflies etc.) simply for pleasure.
I am most of the way through erecting a high fence around the garden,which is used as a toilet by the local pe(s)ts,and will be lining the top with plastic spiking.... this is costing a small fortune.
I have just erased a sentence that would have some of you `phoning the RSPCA....

[norfolklass]

sorry to hear that you lost a blackbird, that's always very sad. :( we had a pair trying to nest on the top of our hawthorn hedge and overnight a cat jumped up the hedge to get at the eggs. thankfully the birds were OK and moved on.

this is a very difficult subject that people feel really strongly about. I'm a cat owner (although she's an indoors cat so doesn't go out) and we have at least 5 or 6 cats that visit our garden regularly, and use it as a toilet. we also have lots of bird feeders and thankfully, I've never seen any birds get caught by cats, although there have been a couple of near misses. I think the birds are aware that there are cats around, and seem to keep an eye out for them. but we also have sparrowhawks trying to catch sparrows and other small birds on a regular basis.

unfortunately, cats are hunters and will kill birds given the chance. I believe it is absolutely the responsibility of the cat owner to make sure that any cat going outdoors wears a collar. this should have elastic for safety reasons, an ID disk and should be reflective to help motorists see cats at night and prevent traffic accidents, and perhaps most importantly, the collar should have a bell to give the birds a fighting chance of hearing the cat coming and escaping.

I know it's not the point, but can you put up a bird table or feeding platform so that the birds don't have to feed on the ground? and maybe call on your cat owning neighbours and ask them if they would consider putting collars with bells on their cats?

[twinkletoes]

Oooh I know what you mean.  We have loads of cats in our area too but the two main pests live next door.  You need to get a little Jack Russell (like we have) who spends most of her time watching through the fence to make sure the cats stay on their side of the fence.  She goes mad if they dare to venture into her space and she chases them off.  They do tend to tease her though by going on to the garage roof and watching down on her - or sit on the bedroom window cill and watch her.  What about putting cuttings of pyracantha just under the soil - they'll only be at that spot the once.......   ;)

Twinkletoes

[SnooziSuzi]

Personally I would prefer that a few birds were killed by overzealous cat than had rats and mice running all over my garden.

I can see how it would be upsetting, as blackbirds and other types of birds don't harm anyone and are nice to have around, but cats have been kept for millennia to do exactly that... Kill things!  How many diseases would have been contracted if the farm cat didn't kill the rats and mice in the barns? 

You and Norfolklass are both right, it IS the responsibility of cat owners to make sure their cats don't have a stealthy advantage by fitting brightly coloured, reflective collars with bells, and, by erecting a higher fence you are doing everything you can, but these cats aren't doing it for pleasure - it's instinct.  Just like it's instinct for the birds to eat insects, worms and small frogs but no-one is championing the frogs on here!

Welcome to the boards  :-\

[twinkletoes]

See - now you sound like a responsible cat owner Norfolklass who is aware of the character of a cat - its natural instinct to hunt.  If only my neighbours and other cat owners nearby would do as you suggested and put bells on their collars.   They are only young uns next door so it might not have crossed their minds to do this.  But why do so many people have more than one cat?  I am assuming it is because they feel guilty at leaving one cat on its own all day, so to make them feel less guilty, they simply get another cat to keep the first one company.  Why do people have pets at all if they are going to leave it at home on its own all day anyway? 

Twinketoes

[jjt]

It's always sad to see a dead bird but nature is cruel and people forget that. I got a cat, she doesn't catch birds but quite a few shrews/mice/voles.I don't like to see it, but I didn't like it either when mice ate the broad beans.
        What I don't like with cats is seeing rescue centres full of them. Everyone with cats should get them neutered. Obviously this would lead to a better chance for birds as well.

[OliveOil]

Even with protecting your fence birds will not come back to your area until the cats go.

We used to live in the middle of nowhere with just 5 houses in a row, we had the most beautiful birds in the garden, then a new neighbour arrived with 2 cats taht obviously liked to hunt and the birds didnt come back.... until they moved away

[OllieC]

Personally I'd kill all blackbirds (apart from it's illegal so I wouldn't). They are a real nuisance on soft fruit - and certainly not welcome in my garden. I'm scared of dogs if that's any good? Oh, we have a cat who has killed a couple of mice and one blackbird in the past 5 years. Not quite genocide really!

[Biscombe]

Nice angle Ollie!! but I for one would miss them singing in the morning though! can't you put some spray down, our precious, adored 3 poo on the roof despite having endless places to poo!!!

Worried about this though QUOTE 'I have just erased a sentence that would have some of you `phoning the RSPCA....' MMmmmmmmm

[SnooziSuzi]

I was chatting with one of the old guys about general things and when I mentioned that I had 2 cats he made a point of pulling a terrified face, backing away from me and closing the gate between me and him before he'd talk to me!!

He then went on to say what he'd do to cats if he caught any in his garden and it wasn't pleasant.  It didn't matter to him that mine were both neutered, one refused to go out of the house, and the one which does go out kills a lot of mice, not birds! 

Shouting on about wanting to kill all cats just because one unobservant blackbird was killed is bordering on nazi-ism IMO.

[OllieC]

They keep cats for there own pleasure

I've been thinking a bit more about this... most of what we do is for our own pleasure. In fact, even you wanting blackbirds in your garden is for your own pleasure - it can't be for ecological reasons - they're the 2nd most common bird in Britain. So IMHO this is a completely unreasonable viewpoint.

Birds benefit from having a predator to keep them on their toes (well, claws) - homo sapiens only bothered evolving because we afraid of being eaten (although we didn't rationalise it in this way at the time). What makes me laugh is people who hate cats but would go all gooey about a sparrow hawk (which has to kill a vast amount of songbirds to stay alive). Cats get a pretty rough deal I reckon - the motive for killing isn't all that important to the victim.

One more thought - every time a child gets attacked by a dog, the owners say "it's never done that before". So it's obvious that the most dangerous dogs are the ones who've never attacked anyone yet. So lets stop worrying about cats & start castrating all the dogs... seeing as this is the place for poorly supported arguments.

[SnooziSuzi]

 ;D ;D ;D

Ollie, I really wish that is what I had said!

[growmore]

Leave the blackbirds alone  >:(   Along with the thrush they eat lots of garden pests  :)
How about declawing all the cats ?..

[norfolklass]

please can this not degenerate into a "who can think of the nastiest things to do to animals" thread?!?

[wolflike]

I am a cat owner. I have two cats that yes we leave on their own at times but they do not want to stay inside and sit on your lap to be stroked all the time. As others have said these are animals that for many millenia have been domesticated to live around people. What would have happened if this had not happened? They would be doing what cougars and other wild cats do, they are some of the scariest wild cats around and the domestic cat is from their family. What would you that hate cats prefer, cats thats live peacefully around humans and kill the odd small animal or large wild cats that eat larger animals and in some cases small humans?

I know that this is far fetched but this is what could of happened if we had not domesticated cats.

I also have 3 different bird feeders. These are used very regularly by various birds. They are at a high enough level so that our cats and the many neighbourhood cats cannot reach. We regularly sit and watch as one of our cats sits on the path as birds feed from the feeders. The birds have realised that they are safe because the cats cannot jump from anywhere to get at them.

All animals should be able to live their lives as if they were alone. They have to be able to fend for themselves in times of need. They will after all be the last thing on your mind if your family is involved in some natural disaster, or house fire etc etc. You will remember your family but will not think about your pets whether they be cats, fish, dogs or any other pets.

Leave the cats to live their lives so that there is a natural balance and order in this world.

[OllieC]

please can this not degenerate into a "who can think of the nastiest things to do to animals" thread?!?

Good point norfolklass, although anyone who has "erased a sentence that would have some of you `phoning the RSPCA" has already set a bit of a precedent.

wolflike - now that  is an innocent looking cat!

growmore - the trouble with thrush is the smell...  ::)

[Jeannine]

I think the world got on quite well before bird feeders etc, and it is natures way for cats to hunt, so why penalise them for it. If you put zoo poo in your garden the cats won't come in and the birds will come back.

I am all for feeding birds and do so myself , I have two cats, but the birds still come in when thay re not in the garden especiall if my blueberries are ready.

When you think of it logically, the bird table is an attraction to bring the birds there, that is bait for the cat.

I think you need to accept the fact that these things happen, to contemplate being mean to a cat for doing what it's instincts tell it to do is  much worse than what the cat is doing as you have a choice and should know better.

I presume this is just hurt and anger making you sound off, and I hope you feel better shortly.

XX Jeannine

[Robert_Brenchley]

We have wildcats in the UK, they're similar to domestic cats, and they definitely don't eat small humans!

[Busby]

My foregarden seems to be a paradise for cats. It's situated in such a way that it is a sort of 'cats' crossing' so I've been the picker-upper of many half-eaten dead birds, mutilated mice and buried excrement over the past few years. It really gets me when newly prepared or newly planted beds are turned into heaps and holes.

So, what have I learned. Well, as far as cats go and taking a positive look they are no doubt useful. But, and this is the point; there are far too many of them. They are not the ones who are responsible for their numbers - we are - because there are far too many of us too! (There are far too many dogs as well).

It's this imbalance of nature that causes these problems and as a result  the bird and insect worlds are suffering.

We need to have some sort of obligatory insurance and the right to request these animals' owners to keep them away from other peoples' property.

Fortunately I am the recent owner of a small apparatus which sends out highly pitched sounds and chases these intruders away without disturbing human ears, apparently they are not allowed by law but as mine is so effective I can only recommend them.

[e4e5Kt-f3]

Thaks for all your replies, and yes Jannine I`ve cooled down now.
Appologies if i`ve upst anyone however I would like to make a few comments.... some in responce to your comments.
I tried to make this point from Busby---"It's this imbalance of nature that causes these problems and as a result  the bird and insect worlds are suffering."
*Eight cats in such a small area is un- natural...... One in eight acres would be perfectly acceptable! If birds come to my garden it`s to feed naturally..they are NOT my pets.
*Bird tables are for the sparrow hawks  delight.... it knows where there is a ready meal on a daily basis.
* Not sure about this `instinct` thingy.... why do cats play with there prey when it`s dead or on the point of death and not moving. Could it be that they are getting bored. cats in the wild don`t exert themselves catching prey just to play with it.
*If anyone has a problem with rats it`s because they are leaving a ready supply of food for them.....seeds on  bird table springs to mind!
* there are in the region of 7-9 million cats in this country... no one can determin how many creatures the kill each year. It`s probably not as many as you think, as, in my little area there`s not much left to kill.!!!!
I`m quite freindly with my neighbours and they are aware of my dislike for their pets, in fact I mow next doors lawns as she can`t afford a replacement/repaired mower..... two weeks ago one of her FOUR cats died it was very old and in distress..... she had the vet CALL TO HER HOUSE  to have it put down.  About three years ago her family had a collection for vets bills of over £300 for another of her cats that was badly injured by a car. The vet advised putting it down but it is fine now.... only two days ago it left something on my newly seeded lawn area.
I reserve the right to be angry.