Topic: Problem with responsibility

[curly kale]

Oh - we've put a fence around it now - but (even as the horsey lady pointed out) we shouldn't have had to.  My husband only gets one day off each week and he had to spend last week's day off doing the fence and gate instead of building another chook house.  One of the old boys told me about how it all used to be open and there was a path that used to run right through the middle of all the allotments but that all changed immediately after the horses moved in had had their first break out. 

[antipodes]

ah this reminds me so much of our allotment situation! As I have said before it is an association that rents the site from the council and runs the plots from a committee of elected members. It is a situation where everyone grumbles but no one wants to take the reins. So it is run by a few bullies, who feel they are important and want everyone to toe the line. For heaven's sake, the supervisor on our plot was known for siphoning off money from "unofficial" fundraising i.e. selling beers and he even admitted that he had "lost" that money. However he was re-elected because no one else could be bothered! Scandalous (i had only just arrived so I didn't want to commit myself at that point). When I was bullied over my "unorthodox" methods, I politely told him to p... off and was not bothered again because clearly when stood up to, he doesn't know what to do. It is ridiculous that, as you say, everyone just wants to grow their spuds and get some peace, and some people just think this is an opportunity to be a little hitler and make themselves look important. I now garden as I like, within reason (I swapped paper and cardboard for tarps to look a bit tidier) and since I did cover 100m2 in 6 months they couldn't complain about my plot. In the end, unless they really want to make a fuss, people like that back off once challenged because they are usually weak when it all boils down. As for the original question, keeping horses on allotments seems to me the supidest idea I have ever heard of... Horses are such a big commitment and need so much space.

[ThomsonAS]

Hi Curly

I've just come across this thread - and, my goodness, it seems an extraordinarily spiky situation!
For what it's worth, my take would be :

1. Whoever owns the land has made it available for people to grow vegetable and/or keep livestock - but you can bet there will be either legal covenants or a memorandum of understanding with some other party about what is and isn't permissable and how disputes may be resolved.

2. The "other party" must have some kind of corporate identity - even if that's simply what lawyers would call an "unincorporated association" - key  thing here is who you pay your rent to. If there's a bank account, there will be some kind of documentation. If in doubt, follow the money. If you're faced with obfuscation, ask your bank who's been cashing your cheques!

3. Do "keep at it"! As others have said, standing up to bullies and wannabe fuhrers is really important - the governance of an alloment site is not something too trivial to bother with - it really is about active citizenship!  We could do with a whole lot more openness and transparency - my own site chair  appears to have ambitions which exceed his mandate (most of us would prefer to quietly get on with growing vegetables  and not do outreach work with our adjoning primary school) but he did stand for election whilst I didn't - so I'll not grumble too much.

Finally, just wanted to say I admire how you're handling things.

A.

[electric landlady]

Just my 2p worth:

Well done on handling things so far - sounds like a nightmare! I'm not surprised you didn't want to get dragged into it but on the other hand I do agree that it will only get harder to sort out the longer it is left, so there is a strong argument for stepping in now.

Also, if there are serious financial iregularities going on, it's only a matter of time before the owner of the land notices, especially if it's the Council who as a public body should be making sure their assets are managed responsibly. Steps may then be taken to end the whole arrangement - you could lose the site completely.

re "buying" the tenancy - it is possible to buy a lease from a tenant, providing the lease allows this, which most allotment tenancy agreements won't do. The lease would have to be properly assigned to the purchaser, and I very much doubt from what you have said that this has happened. If the tenancy has been "sold" in breach of the conditions, action can be taken against the original tenant to end the tenancy, at which point your shouty horse lady will no longer be entitled to occupy the land.

If it is Council land, there should either be an agreement leasing it to the allotment committee or an agreement for the committee to manage the land. Either of these should contain terms stating what animals can/can't be kept there, whether plots can be assigned, how the committee should be constituted etc and what will happen if the terms are breached. Useful to know, even if you don't want to involve the Council and risk losing the land. 

An advantage of joining the committee is that you ought to have access to all the documentation, which you can then take to a CAB (free) or a solicitor (not free). Good luck, and keep on fighting the fight!

[Growbe]

I would check that the 10 plots have not been sub-let which is normally not allowed.

Make sure you also keep copies of all the information.

It sounds like she is frightened she is going to be kicked off the site.