Topic: Going for a smoke ?

[Barnowl]

Like OH said, the smoking ban is merely the enforcement of responsibility, rather than the denial of liberty.

I thought that in Britain we always used to allow people to do pretty much what they like to themselves (volentis non fit inuria?). Health'n'safety have pretty much put an end to most of that, but name me anyone who voted for all the other petty restrictions on our lives e.g. hanging baskets a risk to the public and licences for events at village halls, bands with more than one player(?!) in a bistro or pub, etc etc.

The smoking restriction is a particularly noticeable example of curtailment of individual freedom, but even if you agree with it, don't forget to protest against all the others whenever possible.

From a financial standpoint tobacco raises more than is spent on smoking related illnesses, bit like petrol tax raises more than is spent on the roads, although that's not really a moral argument, you could say that it means smokers aren't actually a burden on the state.

Ho hum, I'm off for a cough and a drag....

[cornykev]

There you go Oldman you've already gained from the ban, more raised beds, so no more moaning OK.  ;D ;D ;D

[Froglegs]

I thought that in Britain we always used to allow people to do pretty much what they like to themselves (volentis non fit inuria?).

But that is the point,you are not just doing it to yourself when you smoke in public. :'(

[grawrc]

Several folk have said that taxes on tobacco raise more than is spent on dealing with smoking induced illness. I'd really like to have the stats on this since, if true, it gainsays a whole lot of government propaganda. Anyone got a link?

[Oldmanofthewoods]

Sorry peeps

It is being told what to do all the time that drives me to distraction.  I see to visit the Eastern bloc before the wall came down and beleive me, being told what to do makes you lose yer spirit.

Nuff said.

Jack

PS Viva raised beds!

[Baccy Man]

Several folk have said that taxes on tobacco raise more than is spent on dealing with smoking induced illness. I'd really like to have the stats on this since, if true, it gainsays a whole lot of government propaganda. Anyone got a link?

Tax currently accounts for about 89% of the cost of a packet of 20 cigarettes bought in the UK I would of thought that covers the costs generated by smokers.

http://www.forestonline.org/output/page22.asp 
This site has done a lot of research on most aspects of smoking I would suggest people read through the info on passive smoking as well as the tax vs healthcare info then they will find out that according to the Health and Safety Commission (in its draft Approved Code of Practice on Smoking at Work, July 1999), there remains absolutely no convincing scientific evidence that second-hand smoke can do lasting damage to the health of innocent bystanders

Here is a quote taken from the page linked to above relating specifically to their research on taxation & healthcare.

"In the UK, for example, tobacco tax revenue currently stands at £7 billion a year compared with the £1.5 billion it allegedly costs to tackle 'smoking-related' diseases. (Taxation revenue should of course be even higher - over £10 billion - but the Government has cleverly 'lost' £3 billion by over taxing tobacco and therefore encouraging smugglers and cross-Channel shoppers to buy the product abroad.)"

[saddad]

and Don't forget the Pensions savings... if smokers like my parents could pay in for decades and not live long enough to claim any back...
 :-X

[timiano]

Forestonline.org is just one point of view though, and a fairly biased one at that. Plus, who cares about tax, government revenue and healthcare costs? Smoking kills, it's spawned a nation/world of addicts, it stinks and it does not send a good message to young people.

I can't believe folk argue for smoking in public as if it's a right, a right to be addicted. OK, "I enjoy a smoke", well smack heads quite often enjoy the feeling of a "fix", but they are still addicted, is it thier right? So the severity of either example is at each end of the scale, but if it's just because you enjoy it, why don't you give up for lent while I stay off the pies?...Didn't think you would. I'm not aiming that at anyone in particular, just smokers in general.

Statistically, and on average smoking will reduce your life. It's a little selfish to your family and dependents to willingly deny them of your presence, even if you don't care. Sure, just about everything will kill you these days and everyone has thier vices, but smoking really is up there as number 1. I can honestly predict in the future (100 years say), that smoking will be looked at as a fairly gruesome thing. Maybe they'll have fags that don't contain nicotine/tar/carconagenics (sp?).

Anyway, no smoking in public, its a good thing. But, street pollution needs addressing (hybrids all around anyone / LPG) as much as smoking has been, as well as millions of other problems. This one is a step in the right direction though.

[ACE]

If it is as bad as they say it is why don't they ban the sale of tobacco completely.

I know it would go underground and Baccyman would make his fortune, but at least I might believe some of the hype they have been putting about.

Perhaps there are too many tobacco shareholders in high places for that to happen.

[Baccy Man]

Ace I wouldn't make my fortune if smoking went underground my wife would just go shopping a lot more often leaving me just as poor as I am now.

Timiano I realise forestonline is a very biased pro smokers site however I am yet to discover an impartial site on the subject of smoking most are anti smoking & are therefore also biased forestonline do however offer evidence to back up what they say unlike a lot of anti smoking sites who come up with a load of propoganda & very little if anything to back it up with.

One thing I think should be looked at is the way tobacco is produced commercially. There are unfair farming practices for example the people who grow it are paid a pittance whilst the big tobacco companies make millions. The approved additives list should be rethought currently there are around 600 approved additives 47 are proven carcinogenics & should be banned most of the others are completely unnescessary, if it was a food product the additives would be put under much more scrutiny I think the same should apply to tobacco.

[emmy1978]

I can't believe folk argue for smoking in public as if it's a right, a right to be addicted. OK, "I enjoy a smoke", well smack heads quite often enjoy the feeling of a "fix", but they are still addicted, is it thier right?

No it's not their right but if the same rules applied to smokers we would be given free childcare, housing, more benefit to feed our nicotene addiction, if we committed a crime the penalties would be less severe than on a non smoker and we'd all be able to apply to the dole to pay our bills when we'd spent all our money on cigs.  ;D ;D ;D

[Froglegs]

Went out for a drink tonight it was bloody loverly to sit and have a pint in a smoke free pub. Had to laugh at all the smokers out in the car park under umbrella's in the rain ......a fire at one end and a fool the other sprung to mind. ::) ;D

[kenkew]

How many fools were outside and how many fools were inside?.....and which fools were sitting with their mouths shut either staring at the ceiling or at each other with half a warm lager and a boring look on their faces?...The fools inside or the fools outside?.....and which fools were laughing and chatting and joking to each other?....The fools inside, or the fools outside?...and which fools were having the best time?...The fools inside or the fools outside?

[ninnyscrops]

Steady now KK we don't want everyone outside  :)

[SnooziSuzi]

Tonight is the first time I've read this thread because I just knew it would be contentious.

I used to be a smoker, and smoked around my daughter who would cough and have ear infections and chest infections all brought on by my (and OH's) smoking.  When I look back it was soooooo selfish what I was doing and I knew it at the time but cared more for my own happiness than that of my 3 year old.

Fortunately for me I had an epiphany one day when I realised that I had sparked up for no other reason than that was what I always did, and soon after managed to quit.  It took OH 4 years longer to reach the same decision but we have now both been non smokers for years.

My parents smoked around me.  And theirs around them.  Dispite them waking up every day, hacking up phlegm, coughing, unable to walk up a flight of stairs they always maintained that smoking never did them any harm.  Smokers always say that.  A guy I work with smokes, and if he comes near you can smell it from around 10 feet away.  It's like a bubble around him that never goes away.

Anyhoo,  the reason I'm posting is to say that this ban has had to come into place because for years we have left it up to smokers to choose not to smoke in public places and to choose not to make non smokers gag but each and every one of you/them has chosen to waive that right and make everyone else suffer. 

BTW - I did hear that the government were now thinking of looking at the level of noise in pubs and clubs!   I'm out of here now in case someone chucks an ashtray at me!!

[Froglegs]

How many fools were outside and how many fools were inside?.....and which fools were sitting with their mouths shut either staring at the ceiling or at each other with half a warm lager and a boring look on their faces?...The fools inside or the fools outside?.....and which fools were laughing and chatting and joking to each other?....The fools inside, or the fools outside?...and which fools were having the best time?...The fools inside or the fools outside?

15 in 7 out, :) the 7 outside all trying to get under the 1 brolly :P,definitely the 15 in all laughing and chatting and joking(bet ya cannot guess who the jokes where aimed at...no ....ill give you a clue there was 7 of them and they were getting wet)to each other ;D ;D. mmmm the last one is a bit tricky. :-\ it all depends if your idea of a good night out(no pun intended)is?. ;D

[kenkew]

Well, there you go, you didn't have to sit there looking bored after all, and it was obviously more entertaining than what usually goes on there for the whole pub to find staring out of the window so entertaining. Might turn into a regular turn and attract even more people.

[Oldmanofthewoods]

Just been down to the pub.  Three chaps in there smoking, one of which was me!  Onl;y muttered comments like "Good for you", "About friggin time someone stood up...." etc.  Proud to be Brit and English

[kenkew]

And what would you all have done if the Landlord had told you all to put 'em out?

[Froglegs]

Well, there you go, you didn't have to sit there looking bored after all, and it was obviously more entertaining than what usually goes on there for the whole pub to find staring out of the window so entertaining. Might turn into a regular turn and attract even more people.
[/quote
It could become a new pub game.....how many smokers can your pub get under a brolly. ;D ;D