Topic: Garden Stage II - Pond!!!!

[Jill]

We excavated the sunken patio, built the raised beds and steps (with some professional help) and are half way through levelling the back half of the garden prior to turfing.  Weather not good for that so I'm now thinking about the pond we'd like to put in.  Help!  We want to build a formal pond about 2m x 1.2m at the back of the patio adjacent to the steps up.

- Oase/Atlantis make a preformed pond the right size and shape but would I be better constructing it using a liner?

- I'm not going to have fish so do I need a filter?

- To save the expense of an electrician and thinking 'green' I was thinking about a solar pump for a small fountain.  Can anyone recommend one/do they work?

Ta in advance!

[froglets]

Looking to do something similar myself on the pond front and have started asking around about ponds....

The main advice I've been given so far is if you want to have soem movement in the water and go for a solar pump, avoid the ones with a built in solar panel as they compromise power and quality to fit it into the small space.  Best to go for one where you can site the panel for best effect away from the pond so you get better power and it should last longer.

I'll watch the thread for other hints I can use.

Ta

[Margaret]

Hi Jill.You say it is going to be a formal pond.Unless it is raised,you will not be able to prevent amphibians from wanting to use it.So if that is what you are intending anyway,you would be much better digging it out for that purpose,which requires a very gentle slope in on at least one side,with a depth of about 2 ft minimum.Then the larger you can make it the better.I don't like preformed ponds much as they don't have the slope needed that also means creatures such as hedgehogs have an escape route.So a liner is perfect

Bear in mind that when frogs and newts are out of the water they need a lot of immediate cover in the way of logs,shady plants etc,that will also attract the insect life they need to live on.If this pond is going to be surrounded by a patio then it will not be wildlife friendly.

You will not need a pump or filter,as amphibians like still water but a solar pump would be ok as it will only work in hot sunny weather which will keep the pond aerated,though it is not essential.The most important thing in a nature pond is plenty of plant life that atracts insects and keeps the algae at bay!

If you have any further questions I am happy to help.

[Jill]

Margaret, thank you :)  Yes a formal pond, but with frogs would be the ideal.  One side will be raised, ie the side abutting the sunken patio, but the other side will be level with the rear part of the garden, with lawn, flower/veg/shrub borders and shed, so hopefully an excellent escape route for our amphibian friends.

Do you think I can get away with the preformed pond in this situation?  (I'm imagining a liner will need more work as I'd have to reinforce the patio raised wall.)

I'd love to have water lilies but would appreciate advice on what plants are must haves (and which are must nots!)

[Margaret]

Hi again.To be honest,Jill it is going to be more expensive and more work to use a preformed pond than dig a hole and get a liner.You have to get the hole exactly right for the preformed pond,whereas a pond can be as deep or shallow as you like,within reason.Liners are quite cheap these days,as is the sand you need to  put under the liner.Then you don't have the headache of trying to build some sort of ramp or platform for the amphibians to get out on.

As for plants,there are mini water lilies available and once you know the depth you can look on the plant label to see which is best.There are various types of oxygenating weed and some nice marginal plants that can be planted round the edge.Even grass can be used to disguise the edge.

I once had a preformed pond and found it hard to install,plant round the edge and very hard to make it safe for the frogs etc.I also had a small lined pond.I decided to enlarge the lined pond and did away with a bog garden next to it,to make it bigger.It worked a treat so i did away with the preformed effort and would never advise one again.

When you get it dug let me know and i will see if i can suggest some plants,though the later you leave it now,the harder it will be to get established this year.

[Jill]

Right, liner it is then.  I've just taken a couple of photos to give you a better idea of the siting of my pond.  It was my garlic bed and the lettuces are doing well there at the moment.  Do you think I need to reinforce the brick walls that will form two sides of the pond - they're only single skin?  The other thing is how deep to make it - is there an optimum depth?

Thanks again, Margaret.

[Margaret]

Thanks for the photos,they give me a better idea of what you are planning.I have 2 concerns with the brick wall on 2 sides.If you try to line the pond up to the wall you will have a hell of a job to disguise the liner,unless you take off the top slabs,in which case you would have to reconcrete them in place.Not a good idea near water,cement is lethal to aquatic life unless all the surfaces are treated with G8 sealant.

The other concern is that the frogs will be take giant leaps off the wall and could injure themselves.

I would be tempted to dig the pond a distance away from the edge of the wall.Slope it gently towards the area where it is flat,away from the steep drop.If you plant up this area with ferns and hostas,then put in log piles to give the frogs shade and encouraghe insects they will be more likely to hang around there.You could also hide the edge up to the wall with lots of trailing plants which would look great overhanging both the wall and the edge of the pond.It will take time to look mature but eventually you will get a really nice natural looking pond.You need good quality but not treated or manured ,soil in the bottom of the pond so that you can plant directy into it.

This will prevent the worry of the weight of the water against a single skimmed wall.A minimum depth of about 2 feet for at least half the pond is good,then you can gradually slope upwards ,out the pond.Some people use a pebble beach.I avoid them as i once found a frog with a broken leg through trying to scramble up mine and fell back,trapping it's leg,poor thing.I removed them that day and felt guilty for a long time as i had to take it to the vets to be put out of its suffering.They are ok on a flat area but not on a slope,in my opinion.

If i were you,i would get a book out the library on building a wildlife pond,or google nature ponds,i am sure there must be plenty of websites that would give you info.I built mine long before the internet and learnt a lot by trial and error but if i can save people from making the mistakes i did,both with my fish and my frogs i should be only too glad to help.

[Jill]

Margaret, thank you so much.  That's really helpful.  I obviously need to do lots of reading up on this before I start digging.  Lots of things (and frogs) to consider. :)

[froglets]

Just caught up with this thread - brilliant advice, thank you Margaret, I'll be implementing your ideas & advice when the sunflowers are over as they have self seeded into the space I'm going to use.

Maybe we have Ninja frogs in this part of the world, but OH has a very successful formal wildlife pond on a terraced slope and the frogs don't seem to have any problems coping with two sides with a 2 - 3 ft drop.  It does amaze me how far/high they leap when the mood ( or cat) takes them, though the number of times the ones in my garden have headbutted me or the concrete fence posts and are still happily going about their business still makes me wonder how they cope.

OH's pond does have a pump which was switched off after the last hard frost to let the newts and frogs multiply, though we switched it on towards the end of the hot spell as the pond started to scum up a bit.  It's a low power thing & the wildlife doesn't seem to bother about it.

We have to be careful around the edges as they like to sit under the pond liner edges, so we avoid walking/leaning/sitting too close just in case.

Hope that helps

Cheers