Topic: Tadpoles and fish

[Toadspawn]

Last year I was advised to put two small goldfish in a new pond to eat mosquito larvae. Great it worked.
This year I had about 10 lumps of frogspawn resulting in masses of tadpoles. Not one has survived.
I obtained some more tadpoles from an overcrowded pond  and within 24 hours not one was left.
However, I have masses of toad tadpoles happily swimming about and the fish swim near to them. None appears to have been eaten.
In a previous house I noticed fish taking in toad tadpoles and immediately spitting them out.
Are toad tadpoles noxious to taste. Do they produce chemicals in their skin like the adults?

[Margaret]

I have never had toad spawn in my pond,this year is the first for 16 years that i have even seen a toad.However years ago my mum had them in her pond and they polished every bit of life in the pond,including every single pond snail.So beware,they are greedy creatures.You can supplement their diet with flake fish food,which might just leave you with a bit of insect life.As to being poisonous to the fish,i can well believe it.

However it does prove my theory that fish and amphibians do not mix.Fish just look upon tadpoles as they would bloodworms,daphnia or any other moving insect. You won't be able to stop the invasion of amphibians from now on,but you will not have froglets ever again.

[telboy]

I find this interesting.
My pond is HEAVING with taddies. I don't have any fish but i do have a load of water boatmen. I understand tadpoles are veggies in their early development & then become carniverous (fish food useful).
How does this situation look for my pond?
The blanketweed has gone but the oxygenating weed is looking tattie. Should I throw in the chicken carcase this Sunday?

[Toadspawn]

The tadpoles will also become cannibalistic so use the chicken carcass for soup!!

It is odd because there are numerous toad taddies swimming about and the fish are ignoring them.

[Margaret]

Telboy,the water boatmen will eat the taddies,not the other way round!! Fish food will suffice and there will be other insects in there for them if you have a mature pond without fish.If you trim back the weed it will grow again.Hornwort is the very best for growth and you do not have to root it.Water cress too, planted round the edges is very good.i certianly wouldn't throw in the chicken carcass i think you will do more harm than good!

[Chloe]

However it does prove my theory that fish and amphibians do not mix

I wouldn't disagree with the therory but in practise this is not quite true.  I have had my pond for 5 years now and I have my original goldfish plus 16 others, also I have tadpoles, frogs, newts, baby froglets too.  I have seen them all this year and the same last year.  Last year I saw a dragonfly emerge from the pond and hatch out from it's pupa.

I never wanted fish but they just happened, my intention was just for a wildlife pond at the allotment.  The fish cause me to worry about them after hearing stories that you can't have both but I am delighted to say, I do have both and they all seem very well and live together.

The fish do have a stodge on the taddies but a few always survive.  Everything seems to eat taddies, they even eat each other.  I thought this was the balance of nature as if all the taddies survived we would be walking on a bed of frogs surely!

[pansy]

Very interested in all this, we have a few goldfish in our pond, I also only wanted a wildlife pond, but somehow ended up with fish. We had loads of frogspawn,  I took some  out and put it into a small pond we have, to protect them from the fish. Why didn't I use my brains and remove the fish instead? Dopey me! Although as my 10 year old daughter pointed out, 'its not the end of the world if some get eaten, its natural and we don't want millions of frogs!' Clever clogs  ;D
Last year we had some toadspawn but nothing happened to it, would it have been unfertilised?

[Margaret]

The reason i believe they don't mix,and it is not just me,the experts say so too,is that fish and amphibians have totally different needs.Yes ,many ponds contain both species but at the expense of one or the others optimum health,i believe.Unless you have a large pond,well planted and only a few fish,in which case it can work.

Fish need a pump,to run a filter and for aeration.They need to be fed good quality food and a certain level of weed and plants,in seperate pots,to maintain a healthy balance,with good quality water.

Amphibians however need the exact opposite.Heavily planted,still ponds with absolutely no pump in sight,else they are at great risk from getting trapped in the pump.A well planted pond will attract insects which young amphibians need to feed on.In goldfish ponds insects are soon eaten by fish,leaving little for tadpoles and newtlets.Nature ponds do best with plants and weed rooted directly into mud at the bottom.You cannot then put a pump into this set up or it would get clogged  up very quickly.

The reason frogs invade fish ponds is because they are desperate for any body of water,with so many drying up in the wild.They need to spawn,obviously,but also, in the height of summer when gardens dry up,they struggle to keep damp and cool,especially in so many concreted over gardens,and a pond is a blessing.

I would never profess to be an expert on this and many contradict me,saying it works for them but i have kept fish now for 16 years,in 2 large ponds, and amphibians for nearly that long in a seperate nature pond.I just feel it is right that each should have their own space with the specialised needs that they have,and i get much pleasure from that.

[Chloe]

Hi Margaret,

I do agree with you ' that is what the experts say' the pond doctor told me that too.

But sometimes maybe there is the exception to the rule.  I also have two ponds, once my first fish appeared, I bought another pond for the frogs, but the frogs tend to spawn in with the fish and the nexts certainly do.  I have seen 3 new small newts this year much to my delight.

I don't have a filter or pump and I have never ever fed them food bought from a shop.  They survive winter with the plants I have in the pond and anything else they can get to eat.  I know they are rather partial to the snails.  I would think my allotment fish are far healthier and certainly live lomger compared to my friedns garden pond which she fusses with all the time.

Of course my pond could not compare to many peoples ponds in looks but in healthy fish and anphibiamns I would give them a good run for their money.

I wish I knew how to post some photo's on this site so you could see.  Mind I always cover it over in the winter, I have made a wooden frame and put chicken wire on it so the heron wont get tempted.

I really am pond mad and would do nothing to hurt my fish or amphibinas if I could help it.

[Toadspawn]

I am still confused.
Ideally I wanted a wildlife pond and no fish but things change.
Anyway masses of frogspawn and frog tadpoles but none survived not even the ones I added.
Now masses of toad tadpoles and they are swimming all around the fish and they do not seem to be harmed?? The fish appear to ignore them.
Also have newts and hopefully newt eggs and tadpoles, and lots of dragonfly larvae. At least nine adults emerged last year.  Water beetles, waterboatmen, pond skaters, and the fresh water shrimp like insects plus ?? who knows?

Has any work ever been done to see if toad tadpoles carry the same toxins as the adults which make them unappetising to fish,  or is there another reason?